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2008 tOSU Defense discussion (official thread)

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fourteenandoh;1257841; said:
theres a lot to digest in this post. well done. first and foremost is tackling. getting in the backfield won't do a damn thing if they don't make the play. sanchez being 'relatively' immobile should help. the part that stuck out to me though is the DE's keeping contain on the plays to the outside. i will definitely watch for that. finally, i guess i was right to mention the DL when looking at the play of the LBs. if the LBs get blocked its going to be a long day.

any opinions on laurinitis' play against OU. spiels said he was flat and was trying to run around blocks rather through blocks. any truth to this?
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I think this is a great point in terms of JL...He is a tough kid, but at times he gets pushed back too much, which goes back to DT letting guys get to him, but at times he is making those tackles 5 yards down the field instead of 1-2 yds or in the backfield...

I think Homan is the best backer in terms of reading a play and stopping it in the hole, but he is still smallish to get up in the hole and always knock the guy back...

The place where we struggle tho is S's in run defense...We just don't see Coleman and Russell up making plays in the backfield or around the LOS like we used to see with guys like Whitner and Doss...Don't know if this is by design and keeping them back or them not reading the play, or struggling to get off blocks...

As for containment...USC will pull lots of lineman two guys alot so if the DE can get push into the backfield and keep containment the pulling guards, and Tackles will struggle to get around the end and then JL can scrape and make plays, but we are going to need to make sure we takes these guys down as they are shifty...Not really guys that are going to run you over...
 
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crazybuckfan40;1257852; said:
You do realize that the NYG and Gators get alot of their pressure from their down lineman...They will bring the occasional LB, but we brought LB's on almost every play last year against LSU and it didn't do us any good...

IF you can get pressure with 4 that allows you to have max coverage of 7 guys or if you rush 3 then have 8 in coverage...Hard to find holes, and real hard if there is a ton of pressure and you are throwing into 7 guys in coverage...If you start bringing 6 guys and cover with 5 everyone is on an island, which is ok to take a chance a couple times, but why give a team a higher chance at a big play, if you feel that you can hold them with only rushing 4...You pick and choose times, when you want to make the big play and hope you are right...

Remember Springs against Michigan...He slips the receiver goes for 6...If that wasn't man coverage and no free, that play goes for 10 yards, instead of a TD...

Tress and Heacock believe in making a team go 12 good plays to score than going 2 or 3 plays and scoring...

Thus why you see the soft coverage at time, and give up 5 yards...
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I was about to say... all of those teams had amazing olines.
 
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crazybuckfan40;1257852; said:
You do realize that the NYG and Gators get alot of their pressure from their down lineman...They will bring the occasional LB, but we brought LB's on almost every play last year against LSU and it didn't do us any good...

IF you can get pressure with 4 that allows you to have max coverage of 7 guys or if you rush 3 then have 8 in coverage...Hard to find holes, and real hard if there is a ton of pressure and you are throwing into 7 guys in coverage...If you start bringing 6 guys and cover with 5 everyone is on an island, which is ok to take a chance a couple times, but why give a team a higher chance at a big play, if you feel that you can hold them with only rushing 4...You pick and choose times, when you want to make the big play and hope you are right...

Remember Springs against Michigan...He slips the receiver goes for 6...If that wasn't man coverage and no free, that play goes for 10 yards, instead of a TD...

Tress and Heacock believe in making a team go 12 good plays to score than going 2 or 3 plays and scoring...

Thus why you see the soft coverage at time, and give up 5 yards...
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The Giants bring a linebacker 95% of the time, their defensive coordinator is a Jim Johnson disciple, and Johnson blitzes on almost every down. Obviously the key to the 4-3 is having your defensive linemen getting pressure, and if they don't your blitzing linebackers are meaningless, but our defensive line this season has the ability to pressure the quarterback, which in turn will allow linebackers, corners, and safeties to get free on blitzes and punish the opposition QB.
 
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i'm sorry, but 3 plays or 12 its still 6 points. hell, even worse is that 12 plays takes longer so they keep control of the clock. the soft zone sucks! IMO we are way too athletic to use it.


any opinions on the defense pre and post Dantonio?
 
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fourteenandoh;1257912; said:
i'm sorry, but 3 plays or 12 its still 6 points. hell, even worse is that 12 plays takes longer so they keep control of the clock. the soft zone sucks! IMO we are way too athletic to use it.


any opinions on the defense pre and post Dantonio?
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Well obviosly both score 6 points if they get in the endzone, but what are the chances of making 12 good plays vs. 3 good plays...

Say a team goes 0, 1, 80...that kills ya, the momentum...

If a team goes 6, 5, 4, 9, 15, 0, 2, 10, 3, 0, 1...You didn't give up the big play in the first 3 and you had more chances to stop them from getting to the endzone...and you also don't give up the td in this case...

I am not saying sit in layed back soft zone all game and just think that you are preventing a big play...But it just makes since to make a team execute for 12 plays vs 3 plays...Obviously you want to get the other team off the field, but if you must, sometimes you hope the other team makes a mistake like a holding penalty, false start, or more chances to turn the ball over...
 
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Brandon;1257888; said:
The Giants bring a linebacker 95% of the time, their defensive coordinator is a Jim Johnson disciple, and Johnson blitzes on almost every down. Obviously the key to the 4-3 is having your defensive linemen getting pressure, and if they don't your blitzing linebackers are meaningless, but our defensive line this season has the ability to pressure the quarterback, which in turn will allow linebackers, corners, and safeties to get free on blitzes and punish the opposition QB.
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Wrong

Front four pressure...Obviously they might zone blitz and what not and drop DE into coverage, but lots of time they are getting pressure with 4 guys...
 
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With Dantonio I think we did a lot better job disguising our blitzes. For example, how many times have we seen Malcom and Coleman come down the line only to be picked up by the QB pre snap? I think we don't do as much blitzing (not by much though), and we also do alot of the speed rusher end.

Personally I hate how we use the 3 lineman 3 linebackers and 5 DB package. It leaves us vulnerable. Mark it down USC will hit a draw play or two over 10 yards because we were expecting pass on a 3rd and long situation. I'll rep everyone who says "hey I though you said that USC would....." if this doesn't happen sometime during the USC game.

We have freaky levels of talent EVERYWHERE, but IMO the coaches do worry too much about that 80 yard play. Like I said in some previous threads on previous dates we've been beaten deep or for big plays VERY rarely for as long as I can remember. The BEND but don't BREAK is great if your defensive line can dominate once inside the redzone as well but figuring how our Dline doesn't dominate games I don't agree with the keep everything in front of you theory.

We have to apply more pressure to make up for the lack of defensive line play. I don't care what type of blitz but we have to get after it and do a better job hiding our blitz as well.
 
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crazybuckfan40;1257956; said:
Wrong

Front four pressure...Obviously they might zone blitz and what not and drop DE into coverage, but lots of time they are getting pressure with 4 guys...
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Wrong? If anything, that article proves me right, and I quote " The Giants are able to successfully blitz because of the pressure they get from the front four."

I am a Cowboys fan, I saw the Giants three times last year, and watch multiple games against other opponents, they almost ALWAYS send a linebacker.
 
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Heacock

If DC Heacock were running things in 2002 instead of Dantonio, The 02 Hurricanes would have scored 80 points in that national championship game.

Florida, Illinois, LSU, now USC..... How many more high profile games must I bear witness to before the defense starts playing proactive and not reactive? Notice all those games were close in the first quarter?

Edit: PM'd Kennesaw
 
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"If DC Heacock were running things in 2002 instead of Dantonio, The 02 Hurricanes would have scored 80 points in that national championship game"

I guess you don't remember how mediocre that same defense was in 2001?
And I guess you don't remember this coach (Heacock)was the "Broyles Award" winner last year?
 
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bukIpower;1260995; said:
My dad made a good point on the phone yesterday and well I'm going to make it here. Where has Cameron Hayward been? If he's not getting the job done outside do we think of moving him inside??
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I see that as a real possibility. But, he is just a true sophomore. Who would take his place? Gibbons? He is still learning also. Rose? He has already moved down. Terry? Another guy just learning the position.
 
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