2008 BCS Rankings

[WaitingforKickoff]

It's not illogical that warm weather teams will stay in better shape and have better practices. The colder the weather, the more your body shuts down. Cold weather = less enegry, higher rates of depression, and then the change in the weather can affect your body as well. To play in weather that you live in, is a big bonus.

While the notion that cold climate negatively affects athletic performance might be true, it is nonetheless irrelevant because both teams are subject to the same warm conditions. Because both teams play on the same field, you can't propose for the sake of supporting the theory that one team obtains all the advantages of having the good weather and the other team is subject to a whole different set of circumstances.

In addition, if we are to view cold weather as a impediment to maximum athletic performance, then to remove this impediment would theoretically allow both teams to perform at this maximum levels. To state the argument for the theory in the way that you have is equivalent to saying that practicing in the cold has permanently diminished the optimal level of performance of Northern teams. I find that illogical.

 

[JXC]

While the notion that cold climate negatively affects athletic performance might be true, it is nonetheless irrelevant because both teams are subject to the same warm conditions. Because both teams play on the same field, you can't propose for the sake of supporting the theory that one team obtains all the advantages of having the good weather and the other team is subject to a whole different set of circumstances.

In addition, if we are to view cold weather as a impediment to maximum athletic performance, then to remove this impediment would theoretically allow both teams to perform at this maximum levels. To state the argument for the theory in the way that you have is equivalent to saying that practicing in the cold has permanently diminished the optimal level of performance of Northern teams. I find that illogical.

Not permanent...but when you spend over a month when you are practicing for a game in a cold weather climate, it's going to affect you negatively, as opposed to those practicing in the warmer weather for the same game. So not permanent...but better practices, mentally and physically for the team in the south.

I'd like to see teams go south earlier to practice.

 

[Gatorubet]

I was looking at OOC games during the regular season, on the topic of whether the SEC is willing to play out of region.

Really? It came off to me like you were using the stats to support a theory that we don't play OOC much because we get beaten when we do, and so we are scared to play OOC.

Perhaps I misinterpreted the gist of the thread.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

Not permanent...but when you spend over a month when you are practicing for a game in a cold weather climate, it's going to affect you negatively, as opposed to those practicing in the warmer weather for the same game. So not permanent...but better practices, mentally and physically for the team in the south.

I'd like to see teams go south earlier to practice.

I think we hold the misconception that these northern players could hear their teeth chatter during outside practices in the cold when the reality is that they practice indoors in the warmth most of the time. Besides, they arrive at the bowl locations weeks in advance to prepare and acclimate. So whatever disadvantage present may not even be material to the outcome on the scoreboard.

One last thing, the theory that cold negatively affects performance may not even hold water. There are plenty who would argue that cold weather is more demanding to the human physiology, which induces a higher state of performance in the athlete. The point is, we are making a lot of questionable leaps in logic in order to justify the theory.

 

[jwinslow]

Simple question:
Do you think playing on the left coast has an effect on SEC teams?

Really? It came off to me like you were using the stats to support a theory that we don't play OOC much because we get beaten when we do, and so we are scared to play OOC.

It is my contention that many SEC teams avoid leaving their region, and with how badly such endevours go, maybe that's the reason. The longer I looked at it, I conceded a bit of ground on UF and LSU, but still hold that opinion for many other SEC squads. My contention is obviously biased and assumption driven, they may simply schedule games that are easier (travel, cost and revenue). But either way that is beyond the point, and I think you're taking us down this rabbit trail on purpose.

The reference was made to point out how the SEC does out of region (as it relates to our debate about playing bowl games in region), not to rehash why they schedule the way they do.

Either way i fail to see how your rant about the Peach Bowl blows up my methodology, when it was not involved in my discussion (scheduling out of region games and the results). It seems like you misunderstood my methodology when questioning why the peach was not involved.

 

[Gatorubet]

Well hello Mr. Hyperbole. Is this where this debate is headed?

Reading your somewhat artificially compiled stats again perhaps influenced my tone.

Your editorial comments where you reference game and team records (one match up a record of last year's team is mentioned, the next match up the current year record mentioned; SEC wins are down played, SEC defeats hi-lighted; comments almost always designed to make the SEC look worse) seems to speak of an agenda by the author.

Maybe you should read your list again. It does not speak of impartiality, which I know was your goal. :p

 

[JXC]

I think we hold the misconception that these northern players could hear their teeth chatter during outside practices in the cold when the reality is that they practice indoors in the warmth most of the time. Besides, they arrive at the bowl locations weeks in advance to prepare and acclimate. So whatever disadvantage present may not even be material to the outcome on the scoreboard.

One last thing, the theory that cold negatively affects performance may not even hold water. There are plenty who would argue that cold weather is more demanding to the human physiology, which induces a higher state of performance in the athlete. The point is, we are making a lot of questionable leaps in logic in order to justify the theory.

I guess I just disagree with you...not with the facts, but with what the facts mean.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

I guess I just disagree with you...not with the facts, but with what the facts mean.

For the record I don't disagree with you that may be convoluted explanations for the facts on the surface. I just don't think there is not enough to justify this particular explanation.

 

[Gatorubet]

Either way i fail to see how your rant about the Peach Bowl blows up my methodology, when it was not involved in my discussion (scheduling out of region games and the results).

Rant. I do not think the word means what you think it means. :tongue2:

It seems like you misunderstood my methodology when questioning why the peach was not involved.

"It is my contention that many SEC teams avoid leaving their region, and with how badly such endeavors go, maybe that's the reason."

I understand that you have given UF more of a pass on this hypothesis, but the fact is your original basis for this was SOS losing to a fired up Syracuse team in that frickin sweat house of a dome in 1991.

I respectfully decline to accept that as evidence of our fearful intentional non-scheduling of other OOC regular season games outside the SEC Region boundary, and I decline to accept your statistics to imply similar evidence of my Conference Brethren's scheduling cowardice.

Just like an 0-9 stat may mean something - or not, what it may mean can be ridiculously interpreted to all kinds of conclusions, most or all of them quite false. In a similar vein, while that is an interesting OOC stat that may mean something, the conclusion that the SEC is - let's call it "afraid" to play OOC - is to me not a valid conclusion.

 

[jwinslow]

Reading your somewhat artificially compiled stats again perhaps influenced my tone.

Fine, but does that make the numbers wrong? You're someone who adores the 'scoreboard' line, why such a shift in methodology here?

Your editorial comments where you reference game and team records (one match up a record of last year's team is mentioned, the next match up the current year record mentioned; SEC wins are down played, SEC defeats hi-lighted; comments almost always designed to make the SEC look worse) seems to speak of an agenda by the author.

hmm, it looks like I failed to finish that sentence, where I meant to add MiamiOh went 2-10 that year.

I'll be glad to go back and add all of the records, it certainly doesn't change the ugly nature of the numbers.

Maybe you should read your list again. It does not speak of impartiality, which I know was your goal.

fair enough. I'll make it more straight forward and then you'll start addressing these points directly, deal?

 

[jwinslow]

I respectfully decline to accept that as evidence of our fearful intentional non-scheduling of other OOC regular season games outside the SEC Region boundary, and I decline to accept your statistics to imply similar evidence of my Conference Brethren's scheduling cowardice.

Let's put aside why they don't play out of region, as my point is purely speculative and without any hard evidence.


Do you feel the SEC does well playing far from home? Why do you think teams have struggled greatly on the left coast if it is such an overrated factor?

 

[Gatorubet]

Fine, but does that make the numbers wrong? You're someone who adores the 'scoreboard' line, why such a shift in methodology here?

Why would an OOC game outside the SEC Region not count if it was a Bowl? I mean, under your theory SEC wins over OOC teams outside the SEC Region would be a reason to discount "fear of losing OOC regular season games outside the SEC region" as the cause of our scant OOC schedule.

Put another way, if we beat OOC teams out of the SEC Region in a Bowl, why would those wins be banished from our psyches and only our losses to OOC teams in the regular season be on our minds when we intentionally avoid OOC regular season scheduling?

I mean, under your current methodology UT beating FSU in Arizona does not count because 1) it is a bowl game. And, if UT had beaten FSU in the Orange, it would have also not counted because 2) Gainesville is in Florida, which means that a UT win in Miami is somehow not worthy of inclusion due to the "SEC Region" criteria.

The chosen parameters seem a little arbitrary to me.

Finally, please understand that I am just passing the time on the subject, defending my conference, and not trying to make anything personal. You went to a lot of work on the statistics, and you certainly have enough data to make a point, whether or not I buy the conclusion.

There is no challenge to your integrity by my challenging the conclusion or the methodology.

 

[Gatorubet]

Let's put aside why they don't play out of region, as my point is purely speculative and without any hard evidence.


Do you feel the SEC does well playing far from home? Why do you think teams have struggled greatly on the left coast if it is such an overrated factor?

I think that we do it so rarely that it is not enough evidence to draw empirical conclusions, other than to show that all SEC teams do not wear superman capes, and are not automatically to be favored. We have a good strong conference. Many SEC fans and ESPN pundits overstate the strength of the conference, just like they overstate the stupid speed issue. Unless you are a blind homer, you would see that recent UF losses to Iowa and Michigan reflect the parity of conferences, let alone the recent ass-whippings the Pac-10 has put on the SEC.

I wish the Rose was not limited to the Big-10 and Pac-10 so much, as I would love to see some games with SEC teams out there. I loved the USC home and home in the early 80s. We tied out there and beat the Trojans at Florida Field, Wilbur Marshall having a coming out party.

I will easily and glady admit that the statistics you compiled show that our rep is greater than it should be. The removal of the "afraid to play" component of the thread makes us in virtual agreement.

 

[jwinslow]

The chosen parameters seem a little arbitrary to me.

They were evaluating OOC scheduling out of region, so I listed those results. Just like if someone took OSU to task for their weak 07 ooc schedule, they would evaluate past OOC scheduling, not games "scared" OSU was forced to play in bowl games.

Feel free to add your bowl games to the list :)

Finally, please understand that I am just passing the time on the subject, defending my conference, and not trying to make anything personal. You went to a lot of work on the statistics, and you certainly have enough data to make a point, whether or not I buy the conclusion.

There is no challenge to your integrity by my challenging the conclusion or the methodology.

Understood. I'm trying to help a wayward thinking heathen back to the light :p

 

[jwinslow]

I will easily and glady admit that the statistics you compiled show that our rep is greater than it should be. The removal of the "afraid to play" component of the thread makes us in virtual agreement.

:cheers: