2007 TSUN News

[HailToMichigan]

HTM you obviously know Michigan recruiting better than I, so correct me if I'm wrong, but here are the facts that I see.

RR accountable for 9 recruits (Odoms, Shaw, Roundtree, Barnum, Omameh, Robinson, Feagin, Floyd, Hill) avg. star rating scout 3.22

overall star ranking of all 25 recruits 3.56 (lloyd's 16 recruits had an avg. ranking of 3.75)

2 decommitts (Weinke, Wilson)

we all know that stars only have value for recruitniks, and the real success of the class won't be measured for a few years, however on the surface it looks like the majority of credit for this class should be given to Lloyd.

Also Brandon Smith, who gave his verbal to Michigan I believe in early January.

Sure, Lloyd recruited the majority of those guys and I would never wish to take credit away from Lloyd where it's due him. I just think there's a pretty solid RR stamp on the class too, even on some of Lloyd's commits like Witherspoon and Fitzgerald who RR probably had to do a little bit of re-recruiting on.

And lay off the hyperbole by referring to this as "an earthquake of a coaching change". If Lllllloyd had been canned and was replaced by a coach from a 1AA in-state school, then you could possibly claim there was a "tremor", but even then "earthquake" is fairly ridiculous.

Well, we don't have a I-AA instate school, but anyway. You don't think there was some pretty big upheaval in the program? Highly publicized search that ends in a complete change in football philosophy with a complete outsider selected as coach? I see no way to pretend that the Michigan program didn't undergo a HUGE change.

 

[buckiprof]

Well, we don't have a I-AA instate school, but anyway. You don't think there was some pretty big upheaval in the program? Highly publicized search that ends in a complete change in football philosophy with a complete outsider selected as coach? I see no way to pretend that the Michigan program didn't undergo a HUGE change.

I didn't say that MI had a 1-AA school. Giving an example of something that may have been closer to a tremor, yet still not an earthquake.

What you mention here are internal changes. What you implied earlier by the hyperbolic "earthquake of a coaching change" was beyond internal, it also included external. The hyperbole of "earthquake" should include internal and external and should also be based on something more than simply change.

IMO, it was closer to an "earthquake" when OSU hired JT mainly because he was coming from 1-AA. Granted, he had some championships under his belt from YSU, and was known and respected in Ohio, but how much name recognition did he really have nationally at the time of the hire? Those who had given a verbal to Coop were now faced with a somewhat unknown to some of them....more "earth shattering" than Dick Wad replacing Llllllyd wouldn't you say? Yet in no stretch would I have classified that as an "earthquake of a coaching change" back then. Maybe because back then I wasn't doing everything under the sun to try and paint the new coach as a savior.

So run with it. You call this an "earthquake of a coaching change" and are amazed at Dick Wad's class, agreeing that it has more talent than what he got at WVU. (While I still will not consider his first class to be next year, do whatever and say whatever and believe whatever makes you happy.) The next logical step is too have fairly high expectations this year, I mean hey this class has more talent than what he got at WVU and look what he did there.....with less talent!

Amazing that I now know what desperation smells like when written.

I would warn against too high expectations but that didn't work with Domers and their inFATuation with their savior. You have made it abundantly clear that it will not work with you either. For the respect that I have/had for scUM, for the meaning of The Game, for those skunkbear fans that still value honor, integrity, and respectability, I am sorry to see this man now being the face of scUM football. I wonder 4 years from now how many recruits will be too.

 

[HailToMichigan]

The next logical step is too have fairly high expectations this year, I mean hey this class has more talent than what he got at WVU and look what he did there.....with less talent!

Amazing that I now know what desperation smells like when written.

I would warn against too high expectations but that didn't work with Domers and their inFATuation with their savior. You have made it abundantly clear that it will not work with you either.

No, the next logical step is to have fairly high expectations for 2009 and 2010, when this class is moving up on the depth chart. You're the one turning my words into desperation, not me. Never have I ever pretended to have high expectations for 2008, I'm simply pleased that 1) Lloyd gave this class a good solid kick-start, 2) Rodriguez was able to hold it together and 3) Rodriguez was able to supplement it with a few pretty good pickups of his own. Why would you think I'd suddenly forget that freshmen are freshmen?

P.S. If the change wasn't all that earthshattering, why does Ryan Mallett think he has special enough circumstances with the change of system to warrant a waiver of the year sitout requirement upon transferring, when dozens of other kids do the same thing? Why is there a 90+ page thread on a Buckeye site about the guy? You make it sound like this stuff happens every day.

 

[sandgk]

No, the next logical step is to have fairly high expectations for 2009 and 2010, when this class is moving up on the depth chart.

Another reason to temper enthusiasm is the number of players from this transitional class who stay in the TSUN program for '09, '10 seasons. (See ND attrition from transitional and 1st full Weis classes).
As for high expectations for '09 and '10 if you mean in terms of recruiting I can understand where your blue-tinted crystal ball works. If you mean on the field product I'm sure you'd agree that you have to see whether the recruiting expectations are, first, actually met.

I'm simply pleased that 1) Lloyd gave this class a good solid kick-start, 2) Rodriguez was able to hold it together and 3) Rodriguez was able to supplement it with a few pretty good pickups of his own.

Just my 2c on the transitional class. I give Lloyd and the prior position coaches the majority of the kudos for reeling in or interesting the TSUN class of '08. By that I mean that they had laid the groundwork for pretty much everyone except the late January and February commits. Even among the January and February commits Shaw and Brandon Smith were previous visitors to AA, so the new HC's work was less difficult, required less digging than in the case of Robinson, Hill, Roundtree and more recently Odoms. (Speaking of which, is he a likely academic qualifier?)

P.S. If the change wasn't all that earthshattering, why does Ryan Mallett think he has special enough circumstances with the change of system to warrant a waiver of the year sitout requirement upon transferring, when dozens of other kids do the same thing?

Conflation your name is HTM :). Or, must be because Mallett is a great asset in the shotgun / spread formations as everyone in AA was pleading at the time fo the hire. :tongue2:
Seriously though, this has absolutely nothing to do with earth-shattering or normal coaching changes. Everything to do with Mallett not wanting to go along with the rules. BTW, I'm firmly in the camp that this hire is bigger than "normal" even on a pure football level because of the changed style of offense being installed in AA.

Why is there a 90+ page thread on a Buckeye site about the guy?

Duh! the Buckeyes primary rival gets a new coach who also just happens to be newsworthy - largely on account of his actions when departing his past job and alma mater.
Even without the colorful and sizzling soap opera, calls to recruits through refusal to pony up a $4 million buy out, this thread would be long just for the first reason. Plug in a swift move away from pro-set to boot. Only difference if Wadriguez was a less colorful hire is there would be more discussion of football style.

You make it sound like this stuff happens every day.

If TSUN hired a new head football coach everyday that would be earth-shattering.

 

[GrizzlyBuck]

HTM, I agree that rr deserves credit for keeping the class together, specially in light of Cissiko and McGuffie reportedly shopping around after his hire.

I still think it was inane, for a myriad of reasons, for Futiak to appear to give rr props because this was class was better than any of his at WVU, looked like filler to me.

I for one have to be careful to dismiss the prospects that rr was able to secure after his arrival. We tOSU fans well know that a 3* "reach" that looks questionable on signing day can look brilliant 2-3 years later.

From my perspective down here near C-bus, it does not appear that his reign has started on the best foot (with his contract buy-out-gate, shredder-gate, and the griping of other B10 coaches about his recruiting tactics) but I admit I might be just a tad biased against all things related to TTUN

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

No, the next logical step is to have fairly high expectations for 2009 and 2010, when this class is moving up on the depth chart. You're the one turning my words into desperation, not me. Never have I ever pretended to have high expectations for 2008, I'm simply pleased that 1) Lloyd gave this class a good solid kick-start, 2) Rodriguez was able to hold it together and 3) Rodriguez was able to supplement it with a few pretty good pickups of his own. Why would you think I'd suddenly forget that freshmen are freshmen?

P.S. If the change wasn't all that earthshattering, why does Ryan Mallett think he has special enough circumstances with the change of system to warrant a waiver of the year sitout requirement upon transferring, when dozens of other kids do the same thing? Why is there a 90+ page thread on a Buckeye site about the guy? You make it sound like this stuff happens every day.

those are 2 pretty weak ass examples of why this hire was "earthshattering".

 

[Sportsbuck28]

No, the next logical step is to have fairly high expectations for 2009 and 2010, when this class is moving up on the depth chart.

I swear I heard this exact same thing with different years from a Golden Domer fan a few years ago when a certain fat douchebag was hired.

 

[Oh8ch]

The most positive news from a UM perspective is that players are getting pissed because they are being asked to work harder.

UM has been without focus for some time. IMO RR has enough talent to build a contender this season.

He is still a snake.

 

[brutus2002]

I also believe that Michigan will contend for the Outback Bowl this year.

 

[spadukins]

Special request

Hey TSUN posters, would it be possible for one of you to post your "best guess" at what the actual Wolverine starting lineups might look like for 2008 based on what you might be able to forsee happening with your new coach's schemes. Not asking for a whole depth chart......just likely starters.

Just curious. If you guys can't do it or find it too hard to do because of all the unknowns then just forget I asked.

Thanks.

Go Buckeyes!!!!!!

 

[three7]

Offense (12 players listed due to FB and slot WR--substitute one for the other):
QB-Steven Threet
RB-Brandon Minor ***EDIT: Kevin Grady*** see explanation in follow-up post.
FB-Mark Mondrous
LT-Perry Dorrestein
LG-Justin Boren
OG-David Molk/Mark Moosmann
RG-Steven Shilling
RT-Mark Ortmann
TE-Carson Butler...
Slot-Terrence Robinson/Michael Shaw
WR-Greg Matthews
WR-JR Hemingway


Defense:
DE-Tim Jamison
DT-Will Johnson
DT-Terrance Taylor
DE-Brandon Graham
WLB-Jonas Mouton
MLB-Johnny Thompson
SLB-Obi Ezeh
CB-Morgan Trent
SS-Artis Chambers/Charles Stewart
FS-Stevie Brown
CB-Donovan Warren

 

[spadukins]

Offense (12 players listed due to FB and slot WR--substitute one for the other):
QB-Steven Threet
RB-Brandon Minor
FB-Mark Mondrous
LT-Perry Dorrestein
LG-Justin Boren
OG-David Molk/Mark Moosmann
RG-Steven Shilling
RT-Mark Ortmann
TE-Carson Butler...
Slot-Terrence Robinson/Michael Shaw
WR-Greg Matthews
WR-JR Hemingway


Defense:
DE-Tim Jamison
DT-Will Johnson
DT-Terrance Taylor
DE-Brandon Graham
WLB-Jonas Mouton
MLB-Johnny Thompson
SLB-Obi Ezeh
CB-Morgan Trent
SS-Charles Stewart
FS-Stevie Brown
CB-Donovan Warren

Thanks.

 

[buckiprof]

No, the next logical step is to have fairly high expectations for 2009 and 2010, when this class is moving up on the depth chart. You're the one turning my words into desperation, not me. Never have I ever pretended to have high expectations for 2008, I'm simply pleased that 1) Lloyd gave this class a good solid kick-start, 2) Rodriguez was able to hold it together and 3) Rodriguez was able to supplement it with a few pretty good pickups of his own. Why would you think I'd suddenly forget that freshmen are freshmen?

P.S. If the change wasn't all that earthshattering, why does Ryan Mallett think he has special enough circumstances with the change of system to warrant a waiver of the year sitout requirement upon transferring, when dozens of other kids do the same thing? Why is there a 90+ page thread on a Buckeye site about the guy? You make it sound like this stuff happens every day.

I am just connecting the dots for you HTM. You obviously believe that Dick Wad is a very good hire (your defense of him is quite amazing) and you couple that with your agreement in the assessment that this first class of his at scUM is better than what he got at WVU. A savior of a coach and a better class than he got at WVU should equate to great things this year. The cupboard isn't exactly bare at Morgantown North.

What slipped over you was the sarcasm that I was playing off of another earlier post where the poster said that one can't compare a class at scUM vs one at WVU. This poster was correct yet you disagreed, again trying to heap praise upon Dick Wad and his almightiness. Even using the extremelyt hyperbolic "earthquake of a coaching change" phrase.

And to be clear, since I am afraid it may be lost, my comment about desperation referred specifically to the desperation that you have gone to in this thread to defend Dick Wad at every turn. The desperation that he is "the man" to lead the skunkbears is quite amazing.

Go through Dick Wad's thread from page 1 and count how many posts pertain to Dick Wad's character, integrity, honor, the case with WVU, etc.. I bet you would find that if those posts were remeoved you would have a significantly smaller thread about the "savior of skunkbear football". Earthquake....no! Smelling a rat....yes!

those are 2 pretty weak ass examples of why this hire was "earthshattering".

How many posts in this thread contain weak ass examples of defending Dick Wad? Serious desperation>

 

[SNIPER26]

Offense (12 players listed due to FB and slot WR--substitute one for the other):
QB-Steven Threet
RB-Brandon Minor
FB-Mark Mondrous
LT-Perry Dorrestein
LG-Justin Boren
OG-David Molk/Mark Moosmann
RG-Steven Shilling
RT-Mark Ortmann
TE-Carson Butler...
Slot-Terrence Robinson/Michael Shaw
WR-Greg Matthews
WR-JR Hemingway


Defense:
DE-Tim Jamison
DT-Will Johnson
DT-Terrance Taylor
DE-Brandon Graham
WLB-Jonas Mouton
MLB-Johnny Thompson
SLB-Obi Ezeh
CB-Morgan Trent
SS-Charles Stewart
FS-Stevie Brown
CB-Donovan Warren

Pretty much. Michael Williams could also some PT at nickel/safety. I think he could actually start at FS and move Brown to SS. The RB will be RB by committee IMO, with Minor/Grady the power backs and Carlos Brown as the speed back. McGuffie should also see some touches. Schilling moves to a more natural position at RG.

 

[cincibuck]

Highly publicized search that ends in a complete change in football philosophy with a complete outsider selected as coach? I see no way to pretend that the Michigan program didn't undergo a HUGE change.

The loss of Mallet, actually going away from an offensive style that would appeal to someone like Mallet, in and of itself is a huge change in philosphy and the fact that RR was allowed to bring his own staff along.... the fact that Ron English was not seen as someone worth keeping on... Yep, I agree with you HTM, this is a major shift in the program. One that may take two or three years of lumps to justify, especially if Rob Job doesn't find a QB like Pat White