2007 Heisman Trophy Discussion

[Gatorubet]

Remember when some media people had Boeckman on their lists? Ugh he fell by the wayside.
I think Tebow will win, but his rush TD's are overblown. How many of those were <1 yd in, and how many would go to RB's in any other system? Is Meyer afraid of handing off to backs?

Tebow's TD Runs (yds): 1 3 16 7 5 9 6 2 9 2 2 3 1 1 5 1 3 2 5 2 23 5
McFadden's TD Runs (yds): 12 1 5 56 2 4 2 3 1 2 2 80 16 73

Tebow=68% of Rushing TD's 5 yards or less.
Mcfadden=64% of rushing TD's 5 yards or less.
Is there really a difference.

 

[OCBucksFan]

Tebow's TD Runs (yds): 1 3 16 7 5 9 6 2 9 2 2 3 1 1 5 1 3 2 5 2 23 5
McFadden's TD Runs (yds): 12 1 5 56 2 4 2 3 1 2 2 80 16 73

Tebow=68% of Rushing TD's 5 yards or less.
Mcfadden=64% of rushing TD's 5 yards or less.
Is there really a difference.

Tebow will win it, but if McFadden were to get it I don't think anyone would object. The difference isn't that important, everyone knows Tebow can run, everyone knows that odds are McFadden is getting the ball, both are amazing talents, and when DMC doesn't get the Heisman, I am sure his draft status will more than make up for that.

 

[jwinslow]

Is there really a difference.

People are more comfortable with a system featuring a RB rushing the football.

 

[Gatorubet]

Thanks. That is Intersting, any QB could have scored most of those, but their teams don't use their QB as a battering ram like that. He is a great player, but the 20/20 TD stat is not as amazing as people say it is.

Uh-huh. The Inner Circle Of Zen College Coaching Masters continues to invoke the strategy that easy quarterback touchdowns cannot be used by anyone other than Myer.

"OK. We could get sure touchdown with quarterback, but let's go with chancey pass plays and hand off to running backs to beef up defensieve stats and spice up boring games."

 

[sandgk]

Thanks. That is Intersting, any QB could have scored most of those, but their teams don't use their QB as a battering ram like that. He is a great player, but the 20/20 TD stat is not as amazing as people say it is.

Aw c'mon - when people try to draw these fine lines between one player or another it ends up being simply silly. If it were that damned easy other QBs would be doing it, calling their own number from 2 -5 yards in.

Tebow, McFadden, Dixon, Brennan - all good players. But, I don't see the need to downgrade any of them to upgrade one's choice.

Or to put it another way - have you got something positive about your choice that does not demand a contrasting, negative, statement about another candidate?

Example - I think Tebow should get the Heisman because his tally of 29 TDs by air and 23 TDs on the ground is unprecendented in the modern era of Division 1 (now BCS) Football. In fact, it is the first time it has ever happened in NCAA football. He is unquestionably the best overall player in college football.

 

[NOTREDAMECHIEF]

Seriously... is the Heisman even that big of an award anymore? There have been so many NFL "busts" lately that when you look back you really have to wonder how many winners really deserved the award.

 

[billmac91]

Seriously... is the Heisman even that big of an award anymore? There have been so many NFL "busts" lately that when you look back you really have to wonder how many winners really deserved the award.

what does that have to do with a college award? I think Troy deserved it last year, Charlie Ward was very deserving, Reggie Bush and Leinart seemed to deserve it as well.

It's a college award, not who's the best NFL prospect award.

 

[ctophfranko]

I'm not saying Tebow doesn't deserve the award. Maybe if there wasn't so much hype around him and that damned system Meyer runs I wouldn't be raising these questions.
Plus I'll admit it, there's a bit of a grudge against the Gators for me

 

[Gatorubet]

I don't agree with Troy not having Tebow in the top 3 but I'm willing to bet for whatever reason that is, it isn't because he's still mad about the NC game. He's a class act all the way.

Hmmmmmm. Stiffarmtrophy reports that Eddie George does not haveTebow on his ballot either....

Just a coincidence.

 

[buckeyehottie]

McFadden gets my vote (if I had one), he had a Heisman game against LSU.

My favorite Kenny Maine quote on ESPN is, "There has been a Desmond Howard siting.."

Gino Torretti anyone?

 

[OregonBuckeye]

Hmmmmmm. Stiffarmtrophy reports that Eddie George does not haveTebow on his ballot either....

Just a coincidence.

Probably. What does his ballot look like anyway?

Seriously... is the Heisman even that big of an award anymore? There have been so many NFL "busts" lately that when you look back you really have to wonder how many winners really deserved the award.

Why am I not surprised you think that? Who can forget these gems:

Like it or not Barry proved himself at the next level while Archie did not.
Can you really say that Archie was better than Eddie George or even Jerome Bettis even in college??

All that tells me is that Archie played his college ball in a run oriented offense running behind a great o-line and one of the best fullbacks ever. Yes Archie was a great collegiate back but as you all know IMO the real stars prove themselves
in the NFL.

First of all Archie's pro o-line had little to do with him getting beat out by someone that none of us has/had ever heard of. And if you are talking about Montana he had better than average stat's and split time as a Sophomore! By the way he also led ND to a National Championship.

As far as Bettis vs Archie..... outside of Ohio you would not get many people that would agree with you. Bettis was always a great back he just never played in a system like Archie was in.

True, but Archie lost his job because some no name beat him out and that reason alone I will always make me wonder.

So did Bettis and Ricky both suddenly better in the pro's?? Dont think so...

And you failure to realize the truth baffles me. Ricky and Bettis were every bit as good in COLLEGE as they were in the pro's.

You take off the college and pro labels and just ask who was the better running back and Archie finishes third .... except to Buckeye fans....

First off, I never said that Archie was not a great running back! What I said was that there were many as good if not better.

So tell me why did Archie being the only 2 time Heisman winner have a much less than expected pro career if he was better than Watters and Bettis??

So what you are saying is that all the sudden Watters and Bettis became great backs the minute they reached the pro"s ? I dont think so.....

Ricky and Bettis played in an option offense that shared the ball among several backs including the QB. ND was loaded on offense when they played.

You guys are still avoiding my question... if Archie was so great why did he never reach that potential in the pro's ??

http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/college-football/600455-rivals-com-ultimate-college-team-4.html

 

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

Dispatch

Heisman Profile | Missouri QB Chase Daniel
Trophy would be nice consolation for Daniel

Saturday, December 8, 2007 3:23 AM
By R.B. Fallstrom


Associated Press

Khampha Bouaphanh Fort Worth (Texas) Star-Telegram
Chase Daniel was one of only six quarterbacks in the nation to throw for at least 4,000 yards this season.



COLUMBIA, Mo. -- One week after Missouri's unexpected national title run ended, Chase Daniel has a chance to bring the Tigers another honor the program has never achieved.
The junior quarterback is one of four finalists for the Heisman Trophy, along with Florida quarterback Tim Tebow, Hawaii quarterback Colt Brennan and Arkansas running back Darren McFadden.
Daniel wasn't the only reason Missouri fell just one victory short of playing for its first national championship and was the No. 1 team in the country for the first time in 38 years. He was just the most important reason.
"I've always felt football is the greatest team sport there is; they all have different skills and they make it work -- except for one position, quarterback," coach Gary Pinkel said. "He's got it all."
Including an invitation to the Heisman presentation tonight in New York.

Continued.....

 

[Gatorubet]

Probably. What does his ballot look like anyway?

StiffArmTrophy.com

Votes McFadden as number 1, no two or three.

 

[methomps]

StiffArmTrophy.com

Votes McFadden as number 1, no two or three.

It just means he didn't announce his 2 or 3, not that he left it blank. Here is his quote:

Darren McFadden, hands down. I like Tim Tebow, but as a quarterback you have to have your team in the national championship hunt. There's no other player more dynamic or more explosive than Darren McFadden.

 

[billmac91]

Seriously... is the Heisman even that big of an award anymore? There have been so many NFL "busts" lately that when you look back you really have to wonder how many winners really deserved the award.

what does that have to do with a college award? I think Troy deserved it last year, Charlie Ward was very deserving, Reggie Bush and Leinart seemed to deserve it as well.

It's a college award, not who's the best NFL prospect award.

It's called a discussion man. You seriously dinged me over that comment? Thanks Charlie.