Zach Smith (Official Thread)

[ORD_Buckeye]

There is a reason why at my daughters orientation two years ago Dr. Drake stood in front of the all of the parents and incoming freshman and bragged about how he was able to keep the tuition from increasing a single nickle from the previous year. I believe his exact quote was "Parents, you can think Urban Meyer for that"

Straight from Dr. Drake's mouth to the incoming class, thank Urban Meyer and the football success for tuition not increasing. So yeah, football has something to do with the overall financial bottom line at OSU and it always will. And you can bet your ass if Urban or any coach for that matter starts too go 8-4 every year they will be out on their asses so fast their head will be spinning while OSU finds a winning football coach. For a reason.

How? You take one throw away joke line, and think it's the reality of how the university works.

Of course a coach who goes 8-4 repearedly will be out. I, however, do seem to remember that when we did our first multi-year campaign, we had a coach who went 9-3 every year and there was a lot of grumbling about football. That campaign, however, raised almost twice its goal and set a record for public universities at the time. The next campaign occurred with a football coach who couldn't beat tsun or win a bowl game to save his life. Yet that campaign raised 1.23 billion against a goal of 850M. At the time, we were one of only 4 public universities to have conducted a billion dollar campaign. So no, Ohio State's fundraising has not been contingent on the football program rolling in the past, and it won't be in the future

And the reason, Ohio State has the money to hold the line on tuition and now make the school tuition free for kids whose families make 60K or less is because if those fundraising campaigns, not Urban Meyer's football program.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

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So, you're all in on Meyer deserving what he got and caring less about the heat he is taking. I have yet to hear you, and maybe I missed it the numerous places this debate has raged, weigh in on Smith. We have an AD who has quietly slinked away from this situation. He had plenty of knowledge on the circumstances and could have acted on the situation as Urban's boss, yet didn't. Here Gene is with the second FB coach in crisis under his watch, but crickets.

Would love to hear your take on why Gene hasn't been run out of town.....

Fair question. I focus on Urban because he's the focus of most of the discussion. That being said, after reading the report, I absolutely believe that he should have gotten the same punishment as Urban. My hunch is that he'll retire at the end of the academic year, and I think that will be a good thing.

If I want to read between the lines and speculate on what we've not been told, I'd venture that Urban went to the mattresses to protect ZS and GS caves in to him. That makes the decision and the fallout their joint property. As for the first football coach, you can't pin Tressel's cheating and lying on him. He did do things right when confronted with the email evidence. The botched, shitshow afterwards tends to obscure that and that was more Gee than GS. That being said GS should have been shown the door along with Gee. He just didn't give the powers that be the easy way to do it with a bunch of asinine comments

 

[buckeyebri]

Fair question. I focus on Urban because he's the focus of most of the discussion. That being said, after reading the report, I absolutely believe that he should have gotten the same punishment as Urban. My hunch is that he'll retire at the end of the academic year, and I think that will be a good thing.

If I want to read between the lines and speculate on what we've not been told, I'd venture that Urban went to the mattresses to protect ZS and GS caves in to him. That makes the decision and the fallout their joint property. As for the first football coach, you can't pin Tressel's cheating and lying on him. He did do things right when confronted with the email evidence. The botched, shitshow afterwards tends to obscure that and that was more Gee than GS. That being said GS should have been shown the door along with Gee. He just didn't give the powers that be the easy way to do it with a bunch of asinine comments

Fair response, thanks. I think that Urban being the focus of the discussion is a huge part of the problem and one that was started and has been pushed by the national media, as well as, social media. The fact that Smith hasn't been dragged through the mud and eviscerated, based on his knowledge of the situation, to the same extent as Urban is just wrong in my mind. He could have easily ended it in 2015 and overruled Urban if he wanted to. This tells me he is weak. Having it be his second time in a shitstorm with his head FB coach tells me he has no clue what is going on. If we expect Urban to know what ZS did every minute of the day, we can certainly have the same expectation of Gene.....

 

[Steve19]

Ohio State is a "public ivy". It did not get that distinction through football, but rather through sustained leadership internationally as a research-intensive university that had leading scholars in their fields teaching in the classroom. Athletics do play a role in keeping Ohio State top of mind and providing opportunities for alumni to return to the campus and interact with the Alumni Association. However, I think ORD is right in asserting that the best high school students and grad students aren't choosing Ohio State because of football.

So, I think the truth is that football can play a supportive role in fundraising by keeping Ohio State top of mind, but it is not a dealmaker for the big donors that really make a difference at Ohio State.

As for Urban Meyer, you are not going to replace him with someone of equal caliber because there may be only one or two coaches at his level. I don't know what he did to piss in OH10's Cheerios, but I think it will be a very sad day when he departs.

 

[Oh8ch]

If I knew you in real life, I'd send you the pic of Jim McElwain straddling that dolphin with your face photoshopped on it once a week for the rest of my life. Snail mail.

This is my real life.

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

Are 30+ ACT kids choosing to stay in Ohio (or come to Ohio) to attend Ohio State because of football?

For whatever little it's worth, and in one specific instance - yes, absolutely in my case. I was a 33 ACT kid from Ohio who was going to a good school where college football was king. So if The Ohio State University had been more like Minnesota in terms of football, there's a pretty decent chance I would have gone somewhere else.

Luckily for me it wasn't, and so Ohio State was the only school I considered and to which I applied. I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but there's at least 1 instance of this.

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

Do the position coaches report directly to the OC/DC or directly to head coach?

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Ohio State is a "public ivy". It did not get that distinction through football, but rather through sustained leadership internationally as a research-intensive university that had leading scholars in their fields teaching in the classroom. Athletics do play a role in keeping Ohio State top of mind and providing opportunities for alumni to return to the campus and interact with the Alumni Association. However, I think ORD is right in asserting that the best high school students and grad students aren't choosing Ohio State because of football.

So, I think the truth is that football can play a supportive role in fundraising by keeping Ohio State top of mind, but it is not a dealmaker for the big donors that really make a difference at Ohio State.

Considering the university has had to deal with three major public relations debacles this decade and all of them have come out of the athletic department with two of them the direct consequence of actions/inactions by the head football coach, I think a strong argument can be made that big time sports, particularly the foosball, far from being some crucial necessity to the university, are actually hurting the university.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

How? You take one throw away joke line, and think it's the reality of how the university works.

Of course a coach who goes 8-4 repearedly will be out. I, however, do seem to remember that when we did our first multi-year campaign, we had a coach who went 9-3 every year and there was a lot of grumbling about football. That campaign, however, raised almost twice its goal and set a record for public universities at the time. The next campaign occurred with a football coach who couldn't beat tsun or win a bowl game to save his life. Yet that campaign raised 1.23 billion against a goal of 850M. At the time, we were one of only 4 public universities to have conducted a billion dollar campaign. So no, Ohio State's fundraising has not been contingent on the football program rolling in the past, and it won't be in the future

And the reason, Ohio State has the money to hold the line on tuition and now make the school tuition free for kids whose families make 60K or less is because if those fundraising campaigns, not Urban Meyer's football program.

FFS ORD, do you not realize that fundraising is soooo much easier when folks love their football program and it's winning? Jeez dude, it's not that hard. Crap, even restaurants know that business booms after the foosball team wins. It simply isn't debatable. Football means A LOT to the state of Ohio and even more to THE Ohio State. It just does.

 

[Steve19]

There were 267,000 donors last year and only 78,000 were alumni. They gave $532 million.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

There were 267,000 donors last year and only 78,000 were alumni. They gave $532 million.

6% (which is about average) went to the athletic department. I'll never be convinced that people are donating to the History Department or new Chemical engineering labs or the John Glenn College's intern program because the foosball is doing well. Hell, the history of our own fundraising campaigns seems to show a complete disconnect to how people feel about football during the campaign and how successful the campaign ends up. I've been at Presidents Club receptions and I know a couple of Oval Society level donors. People talk about football. Though many could care less about it, most enjoy it when it's doing well. But none of them are giving based on it. In fact, I'd venture if there's any direct influence, it would be the reverse where some donors--particularly non-alumni--might back off if football causes the university a black eye.

 

[Jaxbuck]

As for Urban Meyer, you are not going to replace him with someone of equal caliber because there may be only one or two coaches at his level. I don't know what he did to piss in OH10's Cheerios, but I think it will be a very sad day when he departs.

To this part: there are two elite coaches in the game of college football and there is everyone else. Urban Meyer and Nick Saban have combined for 7 of the last 10 National Championships.

How effective replacements may or may not be is relative to the peer group they find themselves in at the time. In absolute terms, the guy after Meyer won't likely be as good as Meyer but in relative terms, he doesn't have to be. He just has to be better than the rest of CFB.

 

[Steve19]

Abstract
After nearly 30 years of research, the disparate findings of studies examining the influence of intercollegiate athletics on private, individual giving to higher education institutions have failed to generate generalizable knowledge. The current study examined all available empirical studies conducted between 1976 and 2008 on this topic. Meta-analysis results indicate that intercollegiate athletics does have a small, but statistically significant, effect on giving. Follow-up analysis revealed four significant moderators on the strength of the intercollegiate athletic-private giving relationship: the gift target (i.e., athletic vs. academic programs), the alumni status of the donor, the level of NCAA membership, and whether or not the institution competes in football. Implications of the results and directions for future research are discussed.

Source:Martinez, J.M., Stinson, J.L., Kang, M. & Jubenville, C.B. (2010). Intercollegiate athletics and institutional fundraising: A meta-analysis. Sport Marketing Quarterly 19(1), 36-47. Link: https://digitalcommons.cwu.edu/cobfac/263/

OK. Let's let rigorous research give direction. The study above is a rigorous meta-analysis (generalizable study of the results of 26 prior studies). The study itself is well-implemented and scientifically sound.

Nigel, you're right. Sports has an important influence on overall institutional giving. Football is the strongest influence on giving in universities with football programs and success in football appears to strengthen the effects.

ORD, you're right. Sports is an important but modest influence on overall institutional giving. Further, negative perceptions of sports programmes, especially football, would be expected to impact negatively on overall giving.

You can download the study at the link above and get further into the details.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Max is a contrarian.
I’d like to see penn State die in a fire.
ORD is a shill for the administration.

Can we move on?

 

[Steve19]

Actually, I think it's a win - win...