WR Marvin Harrison, Jr. (Silver Football, 2x Unanimous All-American, 2023 Biletnikoff winner, Heisman Finalist, Arizona Cardinals)

[dragurd]

What the casuals in the comments keep referencing:



The rule that should have applied last night:



Supporting material:



Article 4 of targeting applied with the indicator of leading with the helmet/shoulderpads against a defenseless player.

Defenseless player definition:


Imagine if the sideline knew the rules.

Yep the former rent a ref saying there was no contact to the head or neck area was laughable. Do I think the kid was headhunting and trying to hurt Marv? No he was trying to separate him from the football. But the rules say going high on a guy trying to catch a ball anymore is illegal and that was illegal by the rule.

 

[billmac91]

Yeah, the hit under current rules was targeting. While I still believe there was helmet to helmet contact, it really didn’t matter.

He launched himself at Marvin with his helmet in a desperate attempt to separate him from football. The tell tale sign was the kid nor coaches even argued it a bit…..it was basically acceptance immediately that it was just a touchdown saving play.

Refs and replay got it wrong…still had chances to win.

 

[knuckifyoubuck]

This is the only rule where replay is used to confirm or overturn, it is not allowed to simply stand. I'm assuming the replay crew is also pac-12, would love to know the logic on the reversal. From an SEC site:

The subjective dilemma

McDaid said that targeting, broadly stated now, is aiming at an opponent for purposes of attacking, or forcible contact beyond making a legal tackle or legal block.

Where fans get confused, McDaid said, is thinking that this includes all helmet-to-helmet contact and above-the-shoulder contact.

An official must answer three questions when he reviews a targeting call:

1. Is the player defenseless?

2. Is there an indicator?

3. Was the crown of the helmet used to make forcible contact on the opponent, or, if the player was defenseless, do we have forcible contact above the shoulders?

The third option complements the first, since targeting can actually be committed against players who aren't defenseless ("The only targeting you can have on a runner is use of the crown of the helmet," McDaid said).

If a player is defenseless, a targeting penalty is possible even if the tackler didn't lead with the crown of the helmet. It includes any forcible contact above the shoulders.

But the No. 2 criteria is where it gets subjective: determining if there is an "indicator," or proof that the player attacked in a forceful manner rather than just trying to make a legal tackle or block.

It's like proving the intent of the player in question, which is hard to do and hard to prove. But the indicators, according to the NCAA rulebook, are:

Launch: A player leaving his feet to attack by upward thrust of the body in the head or neck area.

Crouch: A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to the head or neck area, even though both feet are still on the ground.

Leading with the helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack the head or neck area forcibly.

Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet.

"There's some things that tell us that there is not an indicator, such as a defender holding his ground waiting to absorb the offensive player," McDaid said. "If a pass is thrown over the middle and two players are making a bona fide attempt to go after the ball, and collide heads, that's not an indicator. You play the ball."

 

[Powair7s]

This is the only rule where replay is used to confirm or overturn, it is not allowed to simply stand. I'm assuming the replay crew is also pac-12, would love to know the logic on the reversal. From an SEC site:

They told Day "the initial hit was not what caused the injury" it was him hitting the ground....which is laughable.

 

[scarletmike]

The more I consider and read the rule(s), the more I'm upset that the targeting wasn't upheld. However, I believe they can still call unnecessary roughness WITH targeting, and that's where I feel they really screwed up in an unacceptably egregious manner on the call. That hit was on a defenseless and possibly ineligible player regardless of the targeting aspect, so you have to call the unnecessary roughness and then add on targeting if they feel it was there and let replay decide if the player is ejected or not.

They told Day "the initial hit was not what caused the injury" it was him hitting the ground....which is laughable.

Yep, he was clearly out of it as he hit the ground, not after.

 

[billmac91]

I’ve watched this like 15 times and still see targeting every time. Especially on the last angle. There’s a clear launch at his shoulder/neck/head area on a defenseless receiver. It’s textbook targeting and was clearly a game saving play. Watch the defenders as the flag comes out…..they don’t even care or protest.

By the way….helluva throw by CJ. That’s exactly where he wanted to put that ball…only where Marvin Jr. could get it….those guys had magic between them. Too bad we don’t get to see it one more time.

 

[cincibuck]

Just cause I harp on where these games are played, I went looking for something to support my thoughts. So, when you want to know what matters in determining who will win or lose there's no place better to look than a gambling site. Those guys need to be relatively right if they want to eat. https://www.gamblingsites.com/football-betting/strategy/what-affects-outcome/

"Home field advantage makes a difference in football games. Plenty of people dismiss its importance, but we think they’re wrong to do so. The statistics support our view too, as the home team in NFL matches wins nearly 60% of the time. This would be around 50% if there was no at-home advantage."

Take a look at these results:

First figure is total number of appearances, games won, games lost winning %
USC Pac 34 25 9 .735
Michigan B1G 20 8 12 .400
Ohio State B1G 16 9 7 .526


If playing in the Rose Bowl Stadium was not an advantage to West coast teams, it certainly was not a hindrance.

 

[billmac91]

Just cause I harp on where these games are played, I went looking for something to support my thoughts. So, when you want to know what matters in determining who will win or lose there's no place better to look than a gambling site. Those guys need to be relatively right if they want to eat. https://www.gamblingsites.com/football-betting/strategy/what-affects-outcome/

"Home field advantage makes a difference in football games. Plenty of people dismiss its importance, but we think they’re wrong to do so. The statistics support our view too, as the home team in NFL matches wins nearly 60% of the time. This would be around 50% if there was no at-home advantage."

Take a look at these results:

First figure is total number of appearances, games won, games lost winning %
USC Pac 34 25 9 .735
Michigan B1G 20 8 12 .400
Ohio State B1G 16 9 7 .526


If playing in the Rose Bowl Stadium was not an advantage to West coast teams, it certainly was not a hindrance.

I don’t love the new 12 team playoff, but certainly, the best aspect is teams in the 8 through 12 seeds need to play an away game, at opposing teams home venue. That’ll be a fun change of pace. Can’t wait to see an SEC team in December play in a cold outdoor stadium with 20mph winds.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

I’ve watched this like 15 times and still see targeting every time. Especially on the last angle. There’s a clear launch at his shoulder/neck/head area on a defenseless receiver. It’s textbook targeting and was clearly a game saving play. Watch the defenders as the flag comes out…..they don’t even care or protest.

Even Kirby but his lip and shrugged as if he knew it was targeting from his angle.

 

[billmac91]

Even Kirby but his lip and shrugged as if he knew it was targeting from his angle.

They knew 100%.

It blows my mind….

Its not a perfect analogy, but if you watch soccer, you know there are moments where a goalie is out of position and a shot comes towards the net, and there’s a last line of defense where a player can choose to use his hands to stop the goal (obviously a hand ball) or watch the ball hit back of net.

If the player uses his hands to stop the ball he’s getting a red card but at least he saved the goal and gives the team a chance at not getting scored on.

The UGA defender did exactly that…..he laid Marvin Harrison out with textbook targeting….a launch directly at his shoulder/head area to break up what he thought was an obvious TD. He was prepared to be ejected and the Georgia sideline immediately accepted it.

Until replay magically saves them and fucks Ohio State over, again. Normally I’d give a Pac 12 crew the benefit of the doubt, but conference officials is insanity anymore with all the conflicts of interest. You think the PAC 12 is super excited about USC and UCLA moving to Big 10 soon?

They need to end these conference referee alliances….it’s idiotic and bad for the game.

 

[cincibuck]

They knew 100%.

It blows my mind….

Its not a perfect analogy, but if you watch soccer, you know there are moments where a goalie is out of position and a shot comes towards the net, and there’s a last line of defense where a player can choose to use his hands to stop the goal (obviously a hand ball) or watch the ball hit back of net.

If the player uses his hands to stop the ball he’s getting a red card but at least he saved the goal and gives the team a chance at not getting scored on.

The UGA defender did exactly that…..he laid Marvin Harrison out with textbook targeting….a launch directly at his shoulder/head area to break up what he thought was an obvious TD. He was prepared to be ejected and the Georgia sideline immediately accepted it.

Until replay magically saves them and fucks Ohio State over, again. Normally I’d give a Pac 12 crew the benefit of the doubt, but conference officials is insanity anymore with all the conflicts of interest. You think the PAC 12 is super excited about USC and UCLA moving to Big 10 soon?

They need to end these conference referee alliances….it’s idiotic and bad for the game.

Yeah, like maybe refs ruled by one entity - NFL model.

 

[ScriptOhio]

Anybody hear how Marv Harrison is progressing in concussion protocol? Hope he is making a fast (and total) recovery. Also, it would be interesting to know if he would be able to play Monday night (had Ohio State beaten Georgia).

 

[calibuck]

When the camera panned onto Marv during the GA game, he looked positively angry. Don't know whether at the targeting, or at the Buckeye doctor/trainers who took his helmet away. Was it cleared up when he penned a shot on ? that said he appreciated that he wasn't allowed into the game again? Hyper competitive, but we all knew that. Don't want to 'cry wolf', but read somewhere that USC was trying to poach him to play with Caleb. Given what Emeka says about teams approaching him into transferring, can readily see Marv wanting to go with a proven QB (and Heisman winner) for his final college season. Hope the Buckeye brotherhood is enough to keep him here, along with hooking up with his HS QB next year.....or is this some blogger just trying to generate hits on his page? Apologize for not remembering who and what read this...

 

[Captain Buckeye]

When the camera panned onto Marv during the GA game, he looked positively angry. Don't know whether at the targeting, or at the Buckeye doctor/trainers who took his helmet away. Was it cleared up when he penned a shot on ? that said he appreciated that he wasn't allowed into the game again? Hyper competitive, but we all knew that. Don't want to 'cry wolf', but read somewhere that USC was trying to poach him to play with Caleb. Given what Emeka says about teams approaching him into transferring, can readily see Marv wanting to go with a proven QB (and Heisman winner) for his final college season. Hope the Buckeye brotherhood is enough to keep him here, along with hooking up with his HS QB next year.....or is this some blogger just trying to generate hits on his page? Apologize for not remembering who and what read this...

If that happens... burn the jersey and everything else

 

[Trevi]

When the camera panned onto Marv during the GA game, he looked positively angry. Don't know whether at the targeting, or at the Buckeye doctor/trainers who took his helmet away. Was it cleared up when he penned a shot on ? that said he appreciated that he wasn't allowed into the game again? Hyper competitive, but we all knew that. Don't want to 'cry wolf', but read somewhere that USC was trying to poach him to play with Caleb. Given what Emeka says about teams approaching him into transferring, can readily see Marv wanting to go with a proven QB (and Heisman winner) for his final college season. Hope the Buckeye brotherhood is enough to keep him here, along with hooking up with his HS QB next year.....or is this some blogger just trying to generate hits on his page? Apologize for not remembering who and what read this...

I would think that his family is fairly financially secure so I don’t see him leaving over $/NIL