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WR Cris Carter (All B1G, All-American, 8x Pro Bowler, 3x All Pro, NFL HOF)

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Staying totally away from the Monk debate, I'll say that though I do think Carter is pretty much a lock to get in at some point, there is no guarantee it will be anytime soon. His numbers are inflated like the rest of the players from the modern era, and it is already clear that many of the voters don't particularly like the modern era receivers. Again, leaving Monk, there is talk that Andre Reed is borderline to get in at all, and Michael Irvin hasn't gotten in yet either, and if you use those as bench marks, Carter could be waiting awhile.
 
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Bucklion said:
Staying totally away from the Monk debate, I'll say that though I do think Carter is pretty much a lock to get in at some point, there is no guarantee it will be anytime soon. His numbers are inflated like the rest of the players from the modern era, and it is already clear that many of the voters don't particularly like the modern era receivers. Again, leaving Monk, there is talk that Andre Reed is borderline to get in at all, and Michael Irvin hasn't gotten in yet either, and if you use those as bench marks, Carter could be waiting awhile.
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Why? Carter was better than both of those guys.
Besides, Irvin has other issues that may affect when he gets in.

And by the way, I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when i read Tibor's post saying how he thinks someone else does not understand football! I would have spit it all over my computer.
 
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NightmaresDad said:
Why? Carter was better than both of those guys.
Besides, Irvin has other issues that may affect when he gets in.

And by the way, I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when i read Tibor's post saying how he thinks someone else does not understand football! I would have spit it all over my computer.
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Yes because it was Tibor you just have to consider the source....
 
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NightmaresDad said:
Why? Carter was better than both of those guys.
Besides, Irvin has other issues that may affect when he gets in.

And by the way, I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when i read Tibor's post saying how he thinks someone else does not understand football! I would have spit it all over my computer.
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Well of course most of our opinions are that Carter was better than those guys, but many pro people think Reed and Irvin were at least comparable...and Carter had some lean years and personal issues in Phily too. I'm not doggin' the guy...just layin' what I've heard out there.

Right now Jimmy Smith has sparked quite a debate as to the meaning of "modern-era" (i.e. West-Coast era) receiver numbers, and how much they mean. There is a relatively small number of WRs in the Hall as well, compared to some other positions, so there is quite a debate out there amongst the fans and the voters.
 
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In the history of the NFL Cris Carter is second to only Jerry Rice in career Catches and career TD's.

How in the hell does Art Monk figure into this, or any other receiver for that matter?

Carter is a 1st Ballott HOF'er. Debate about the others, but NOT about Cris.
 
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Greatest hands on an athlete in history, any sport, period! I have been lucky enough to see Cris play basketball as well as football so I have no problem making this statement. Don't forget Cris might just have won the Heisman trophy had it not been for the agent fiasco. To the point, he gets in within his first two ballots.
 
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WoodyWorshiper said:
In the history of the NFL Cris Carter is second to only Jerry Rice in career Catches and career TD's.

How in the hell does Art Monk figure into this, or any other receiver for that matter?

Carter is a 1st Ballott HOF'er. Debate about the others, but NOT about Cris.
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I hope the voters share your enthusiasm, but again, don't count on it. Very, very few guys get in on the first ballot that aren't QBs or RBs, and again, the numbers he has (which are big) will mean less because of the era he played in. I fully expect he will get in, and he won't have to wait as long as some, but don't be surprised if it takes him a few ballots to get in...not saying it's right, just the way it is for WRs.

I do think Irvin and Reed will both get in eventually as well, but it will probably take a few ballots for both (for Reed especially since Irvin hasn't gotten in yet).
 
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WoodyWorshiper said:
In the history of the NFL Cris Carter is second to only Jerry Rice in career Catches and career TD's.

How in the hell does Art Monk figure into this, or any other receiver for that matter?

Carter is a 1st Ballott HOF'er. Debate about the others, but NOT about Cris.
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Bingo.

And let's keep in mind that this is Cris's thread, not some HOF thread in the Pro forum.
 
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BB73 said:
Bingo.

And let's keep in mind that this is Cris's thread, not some HOF thread in the Pro forum.
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I think we're completely discussing Cris, and whether/why he will/won't get in the Hall and when, using other players as a reference point...seems like the next big step for him and proper recognition of his accomplishments, so why isn't that relevant to his thread?

And the reason Art Monk enters the debate (and the thread) is because people point to Cris' numbers, but Art Monk was the NFL All-Time leading receiver when he retired, and he's not (and won't be) in the Hall, so the point regarding Cris and his impending induction is that big numbers for WRs are no guarantee of anything (only for QBs).
 
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Bucklion said:
I think we're completely discussing Cris, and whether/why he will/won't get in the Hall and when, using other players as a reference point...seems like the next big step for him and proper recognition of his accomplishments, so why isn't that relevant to his thread?

And the reason Art Monk enters the debate (and the thread) is because people point to Cris' numbers, but Art Monk was the NFL All-Time leading receiver when he retired, and he's not (and won't be) in the Hall, so the point regarding Cris and his impending induction is that big numbers for WRs are no guarantee of anything (only for QBs).
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That's true. But there was one post that didn't mention Carter at all, and questioned someone else's knowledge. I saw a potential for the thread to get off track.

I wasn't trying to indicate that comparing Carter's accomplishments to other potential HOF-ers doesn't belong here.
 
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BB73 said:
That's true. But there was one post that didn't mention Carter at all, and questioned someone else's knowledge. I saw a potential for the thread to get off track.

I wasn't trying to indicate that comparing Carter's accomplishments to other potential HOF-ers doesn't belong here.
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Cool. :biggrin:
 
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Bucklion said:
I hope the voters share your enthusiasm, but again, don't count on it. Very, very few guys get in on the first ballot that aren't QBs or RBs, and again, the numbers he has (which are big) will mean less because of the era he played in.
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You don't think Jerry Rice will get in on ther first ballot? There's no doubt he will, and he played in the exact same "era" as did Carter. Seeing as Carter is #2 to Rice, I would say Carter's chances of getting in on the first ballot are pretty decent...

EDIT: Carter is #2 in receptions, #2 in TDs, and #4 in yardage all-time (Rice #1 in all three).
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
You don't think Jerry Rice will get in on ther first ballot? There's no doubt he will, and he played in the exact same "era" as did Carter. Seeing as Carter is #2 to Rice, I would say Carter's chances of getting in on the first ballot are pretty decent...

EDIT: Carter is #2 in receptions, #2 in TDs, and #4 in yardage all-time (Rice #1 in all three).
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Again, yes on Rice, 30-70 on Carter (first ballot). Art Monk retired as the all-time leader (since passed by a bunch obviously) and he won't get in at all. Charlie Joiner was at or near the top in both yards and catches when he retired, and it took him 5 ballots....same number as James Lofton, also hovering around those numbers.

Steve Largent, the only other relatively modern era receiver to get in, was first ballot, but he led the NFL all-time in 6 categories when he retired, including yards, catches, TDs, consecutive games with a catch, seasons with 50 or more catches, and seasons with at least 1000 yards...all records Jerry Rice will have when the West Coast era guys start going in. So, I think Rice is obviously a shoe-in on ballot #1, because his numbers dwarf everyone, including the West Coast era guys. However, my opinion is that the above examples outline the fact that being #2 will not get you in on ballot #1. I hope I am wrong, but don't be surprised if I am not.
 
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