Who should be the Heisman winner?

[Lockup]

Yes, Florida has played much better competition; this is not a post about which deserves the Heisman. The point is, it is Reesing who comprises his team's entire offense, not Tebow.

I would have to disagree with this. Either team could afford to lose the QB, however Kansas actually has a running back who has 15 TD's. Flordia has a running back with 20. His name is Tebow. The next closest guy to him has 6.

If Kansas lost Reesing they could still run the ball. If Florida loses Teabow they can do nothing on offense.

Florida has 60 TD's this year (plus maybe some on special teams) Tebow has been invoved directly in 46 of them as either the passer or runner.

Kansas has 60 TD's of which Reesing has been involved in 30 of them as a passer and 1 as a rusher.

So Tebow accounts for about 77% of Florida's offense and Reesing just over 50%.

I get what you are saying to about the talant level but again right now Florida is playing a much tougher schedule than Kansas so they kind of balance out.

Oh and BTW Florida's leading reciever has 4 TD's this year and it is not Harvin, he only has 3. Tebow has throw at least one TD to 8 different people this year.

 

[Bleed S & G]

How many Heisman winners have played on a three-loss team?

Why does it matter? The award goes to the best player, not the best team. Now it may factor in for a QB.. but I hate how the heisman has become a MVP award

Either team could afford to lose the QB, however Kansas actually has a running back who has 15 TD's.

Uhh, what?! Take away Reesing and see if Kansas is still undefeated and #2. Take away Tebow and see if UF is ranked. Neither team can afford to lose their star QB.

Besides the fact, the logic behind your argument makes zero sense.. see below.

If Kansas lost Reesing they could still run the ball.

How do you figure? You know, the pass opens up the run and vice-versa.. if Reesing goes down, none of us have any idea what the new gameplan becomes or how defenses' prepare for KU. Most likely looking to key in on the run.

So Tebow accounts for about 77% of Florida's offense and Reesing just over 50%.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

I would have to disagree with this. Either team could afford to lose the QB, however Kansas actually has a running back who has 15 TD's. Flordia has a running back with 20. His name is Tebow. The next closest guy to him has 6.

If Kansas lost Reesing they could still run the ball. If Florida loses Teabow they can do nothing on offense.

Florida has 60 TD's this year (plus maybe some on special teams) Tebow has been invoved directly in 46 of them as either the passer or runner.

Kansas has 60 TD's of which Reesing has been involved in 30 of them as a passer and 1 as a rusher.

So Tebow accounts for about 77% of Florida's offense and Reesing just over 50%.

I get what you are saying to about the talant level but again right now Florida is playing a much tougher schedule than Kansas so they kind of balance out.

Oh and BTW Florida's leading reciever has 4 TD's this year and it is not Harvin, he only has 3. Tebow has throw at least one TD to 8 different people this year.

The numbers that you show have more to do with scheme than anything else.

When I watch the teams play, I see talent all over the field for Florida (on offense anyway). I see players who will be playing on Sundays.

Kansas is executing well. Fine. If teams didn't have to respect Reesing's passing, you have to wonder how well they'd be able to run the ball. Because I certainly don't see Florida's level of talent out there.

I don't follow recruiting, so this isn't about what people were or were not in high-school. This is about how they look now. This is about how many athletes are around them now. No one likes numbers more than I do; but there are some things that numbers tell you, and there are things that they don't. If numbers tell you that Kansas has as many athletes as Florida, you've got the wrong number.

But you never actually said that Kansas has as many athletes as Florida, did you? If that's not your point, it is possible that we don't really disagree here, because the converse of that IS my point. Tebow has more athletes and better athletes around him.

 

[BuckeyeSoldier]

Ok I didnt want to get into a tebow vs reesing debate but if you do this is it...

Kansas.. sucks... every year.. for as long as i can remember... they are terrible... bottom dwellers in a crappy division...
They added Reesing, they are undefeated number 2 in the nation.

Florida, is a powerhouse.. everyyear they recruit well and bring in blue chippers, even more now that miami and Fsu suck... they are the dominate team in possibly the most talent rich state in the country.
Tebow becomes their star... they have 3 losses and are hoping to make the citrus bowl..

i know thats not his fault, but he certainly hasnt elevated his team to new heights like reesing has.

 

[BB73]

Ok I didnt want to get into a tebow vs reesing debate but if you do this is it...

Kansas.. sucks... every year.. for as long as i can remember... they are terrible... bottom dwellers in a crappy division...
They added Reesing, they are undefeated number 2 in the nation.

Florida, is a powerhouse.. everyyear they recruit well and bring in blue chippers, even more now that miami and Fsu suck... they are the dominate team in possibly the most talent rich state in the country.
Tebow becomes their star... they have 3 losses and are hoping to make the citrus bowl..

i know thats not his fault, but he certainly hasnt elevated his team to new heights like reesing has.

Egg-fuckin-zactly!

Reesing's story compares to Flutie in '84 - he's also fairly short and admits that Flutie is somebody he admires.

But here's where B.C. was just before and during Flutie's time there:

'73 - 7-4
'74 - 8-3
'75 - 7-4
'76 - 8-3
'77 - 6-5
'78 - 0-11
'79 - 5-6
'80 - 7-4
'81 - 5-6
'82 - 8-3-1
'83 - 9-3
'84 - 9-2 (when Heisman was awarded)

So with the exception of 1 terrible year, B.C. was winning close to 7 games/year before Flutie was there - he took them up to 9 wins, hit one Hail Mary and claimed the trophy Byars otherwise would have had.

Here's Kansas over the last 10 years:

'97 - 5-6
'98 - 4-7
'99 - 5-7
'00 - 4-7
'01 - 3-8
'02 - 2-10
'03 - 6-7
'04 - 4-7
'05 - 7-5
'06 - 6-6
'07 - 11-0 so far

Kansas is a 5-win team over the last 5 or 10 years, and now they're 11-0 and #2 in the country. It's a much bigger leap than what Flutie did for B.C., and Reesing hasn't received nearly enough credit for their rise.

 

[CCI]

No Buckeyes in th race, so i don;t really care it tibow wins it or not. Next year Beanie will be in NY

 

[ChrisWells28]

hopefully darren mcfadden, if he has a big game against lsu(fingers crossed)

 

[Nordberg]

McFadden had a really good game against one of the supposed best defenses in the Nation. I think this helped his cause/arguement.

After watching that KU v Mizzou game, I don't think Ressing deserves to be considered in the conversation. All they (Herbie & Mussberger) kept talking about, was the fact that Ressing dosen't make any decisions. I think some of the voters see that and won't even consider him as well. Part of being a Heisman QB you need to be able to "lead" his offense. Ressing doesn't make any decisions, so there for doesn't "lead" his team...the coaching staff does. Granted he does have decent numbers, but he still doesn't command the team.

I still think it comes down to McFadden and Tebow.

 

[Lockup]

The numbers that you show have more to do with scheme than anything else.

When I watch the teams play, I see talent all over the field for Florida (on offense anyway). I see players who will be playing on Sundays.

Kansas is executing well. Fine. If teams didn't have to respect Reesing's passing, you have to wonder how well they'd be able to run the ball. Because I certainly don't see Florida's level of talent out there.

I don't follow recruiting, so this isn't about what people were or were not in high-school. This is about how they look now. This is about how many athletes are around them now. No one likes numbers more than I do; but there are some things that numbers tell you, and there are things that they don't. If numbers tell you that Kansas has as many athletes as Florida, you've got the wrong number.

But you never actually said that Kansas has as many athletes as Florida, did you? If that's not your point, it is possible that we don't really disagree here, because the converse of that IS my point. Tebow has more athletes and better athletes around him.

Oh Florida having better players is not even up for debate that is very true. To me the problem with reesing is (this of course is likely a moot point now) he has done what he has done against sub par competition. That is not his fault that is just the way it worked out. Kansas has not beaten OK or Texas or the big boys of the Big 12. They have feasted on the bottom dwellers and teams who are having an off year.

Tebow on the other hand while yes they have lost three has put his numbers up against some of the toughest teams in the nation. Even when they did lose his numbers typically still looked good.

Personlly I would prefer him not to win. I like to see more than one good year out of somebody but they is the way the award goes.

 

[osugrad21]

To be honest, I would not be surprised if this was some sort of way for Urban Whiner to create even more of a "Superman" appeal to Tebow to get him a better shot at the Heisman now that some of the media is drinking the McFadden kool-aid after his performance against LSU.

I wouldn't argue either choice....

 

[SNIPER26]

I wouldn't argue either choice....

I would. McFadden's been shut down more than Tebow has. Tebow's been pretty consistent.

 

[osugrad21]

I would. McFadden's been shut down more than Tebow has. Tebow's been pretty consistent.

McFadden's supporting cast vs. Tebow's?

Harvin makes Tebow better and vice versa...McFadden makes Felix more effective, but I'm not convinced that works both ways.

EDIT:

McFadden vs. SEC:

195 vs Bama
174 vs Kentucky
17 for 53 vs Auburn
326 vs South Carolina
22 for 118 vs. Tenn
32 for 211 vs LSU
22 for 116 vs. Ole Miss
28 for 97 Miss St

Not saying Tebow doesn't have some great stats, just reiterating my position that either choice is fine by me...

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

...

Personlly I would prefer him not to win. I like to see more than one good year out of somebody but they is the way the award goes.

We're pretty much agreed on Tebow. I will have no problem with them giving the award either to him or to McFadden.

And as for how they give the award; it is supposed to be for one year, but there have been several awards that have been considered "lifetime achievement" awards more than single-season achievements. Some of the Hurricane and Seminole QB Heismans have come under that heading.

If the current group of Heisman voters, (which includes many of those who won it based on their whole career and those who voted for them), decides to vote the way past groups have voted, the award will likely go to McFadden.

 

[Gatorubet]

We're pretty much agreed on Tebow. I will have no problem with them giving the award either to him or to McFadden.

And as for how they give the award; it is supposed to be for one year, but there have been several awards that have been considered "lifetime achievement" awards more than single-season achievements. Some of the Hurricane and Seminole QB Heismans have come under that heading.

If the current group of Heisman voters, (which includes many of those who won it based on their whole career and those who voted for them), decides to vote the way past groups have voted, the award will likely go to McFadden.

Fair analysis. I am biased, but as TT is the first ever QB to post those running and passing TD numbers in the history of college ball, that to me is a very, very, special circumstance. It is hard to see why he should be required to repeat that feat again in order to win the award. The odds of him meeting or beating a figure that no one in the history of ballers had met next year would be very difficult, and if he does not match that other worldly feat, they'd say he was inconsistent and regressing.

 

[Lockup]

Fair analysis. I am biased, but as TT is the first ever QB to post those running and passing TD numbers in the history of college ball, that to me is a very, very, special circumstance. It is hard to see why he should be required to repeat that feat again in order to win the award. The odds of him meeting or beating a figure that no one in the history of ballers had met next year would be very difficult, and if he does not match that other worldly feat, they'd say he was inconsistent and regressing.

I don't think he has to repeat those numbers (at least the rushing ones) but as a Soph I would like to see one more year out of him.

to be fair to while it is pretty crazy what he did, he did it because he has too. If Florida has a real running back they don't keep giving the ball to Tebow.