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Which Team(s) Will Join the Big Ten?

LordJeffBuck

Illuminatus Emeritus
Staff member
BP Recruiting Team
This is a vBet thread on Big Ten expansion. The main discussion thread is HERE.

EDIT: This vBet will be open until April 1, 2010. If the Big Ten announces expansion prior to that date, then this vBet will be canceled.

Props to ORD_Buckeye who assisted with this vBet.
 
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ScriptOhio;1627062; said:
Re: Payout on 07-01-2011

Good vBet; however, do I really want to tie up my vDollars for a year and a half?
I agree. Couldn't this bet wait until February/March of 2011:huh: I don't know maybe if the odds were about 100 times what they currently are I might think about it but I don't know if my heirs will need the vcash:)
 
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LitlBuck;1627381; said:
I agree. Couldn't this bet wait until February/March of 2011:huh: I don't know maybe if the odds were about 100 times what they currently are I might think about it but I don't know if my heirs will need the vcash:)

18,085,806.48


facepalm.jpg
 
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Here are my handicapping thoughts on each potential new additon to the Big Ten. I rated each school in seven categories - athletics, academics, rivalries, geography, television, compatibility, and perception - from one star (complete loser) to five stars (perfect fit). Geography rates how well a school fits into the current Big Ten, and television rates the new markets that a school would bring in.

Notre Dame
Athletics: 4* (prestigious but fading football program; irrelevant basketball program; CCHA hockey; women's soccer is top rate)
Academics: 3* (very good undergraduate; weak graduate and research; not AAU)
Rivalries: 5* (Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue; would easily develop rivalries with the rest of the conference)
Geography: 5* (in the Big Ten heartland)
Television: 5* (one of the few national draws in college football)
Compatibility: 3* (will their snobbish, private school attitude fly in the Big Ten?)
Perception: 5* (regardless of the reality, snagging Notre Dame would be perceived as a tremendous coup)
Overall: 30* (in terms of prestige and perception, this move would really boost a sagging conference; a perfect fit geographically)
Likelihood: ? (they won't get special treatment in the Big Ten, so would they lower themselves to our level?)

Texas
Athletics: 5* (top-10 football program; very good basketball program; club hockey)
Academics: 5* (AAU; one of the top academic institutions in the world)
Rivalries: 1* (none, although they do have recent history with Ohio State)
Geography: 2* (at least it's not the West Coast....)
Television: 5* (would open a huge new market for the Big Ten)
Compatibility: 4* (some cultural differences, but otherwise a good fit)
Perception: 5* (stealing a top program from a top conference would immediately give the Big Ten renewed credibility)
Overall: 27* (the biggest prize both athleticially and academically, but geography is a big stumbling block)
Likelihood: ? (faculty would support; would lose big-time football rivalries; would they make a second move in 20 years?)

Missouri
Athletics: 3-1/2* (solid football and basketball programs; club hockey)
Academics: 3-1/2* (AAU; respectable, but would be at the bottom of the Big Ten)
Rivalries: 3* (Illinois; would be a natural rival of Iowa)
Geography: 4* (contiguous state; fits in nicely with the current Big Ten)
Television: 4* (adds St. Louis and Kansas City)
Compatibility: 5* (as a midwest state flagship, it is probably the best fit)
Perception: 3-1/2* (not nearly the home run that Notre Dame or Texas would be, but it's still a Big 12 school)
Overall: 26-1/2* (lots of "very good", not much "outstanding" ... perhaps the best overall fit, all things considered)
Likelihood: ? (would probably join tomorrow if given the opportunity)

Nebraska
Athletics: 4* (not much to add besides a top-10 football program)
Academics: 3-1/2* (AAU; like Missouri, they would enter the conference at the bottom)
Rivalries: 2* (minor rivalries with Minnesota and Iowa; would have difficulty generating rivalries with the "eastern" schools)
Geography: 3* (a contiguous state, but moves the conference pretty far west)
Television: 2* (Omaha, and that's about it)
Compatibility: 4-1/2* (like Missouri, it is a midwest state flagship)
Perception: 4-1/2* (not quite the "steal" that Texas would be, but it would still be perceived as a major move)
Overall: 23-1/2* (similar to Missouri in many ways, but a lower population base and a bit too far west)
Likelihood: ? (they already lost their rivalry with Oklahoma, and the B-12 is Texas-centric, so they might have some interest)

Iowa State
Athletics: 1* (perhaps the worst BCS football program, and basketball isn't much better; excellent wrestling program)
Academics: 4* (AAU; emphasis on research; they would still enter the conference at the bottom)
Rivalries: 4* (Iowa; would be a natural rival of the "western" Big Ten schools)
Geography: 4* (solidly in the traditional conference core)
Television: 1* (duplicates the Big Ten's worst TV market)
Compatibility: 5* (midwest, land grant, state flagship)
Perception: 1* (this would generate zero positive buzz in the media or amongst the various fan bases)
Overall: 20* (a schizophrenic choice, with the bad ultimately outweighing the good by a large margin)
Likelihood: ? (this makes sense only as the third member of a package deal, with Texas and Mizzou being the lead dogs)

Pittsburgh
Athletics: 3-1/2* (solid football and basketball programs; club hockey)
Academics: 4-1/2* (AAU; would be in the middle of the pack in the Big Ten; heavily into research)
Rivalries: 4* (Penn State, Ohio State; might have difficulty in generating rivalries with the "western" schools)
Geography: 4* (in a Big Ten state, but not in the midwest heartland)
Television: 2* (would solidify a current market, but would not really expand the conference's reach)
Compatibility: 4* (not solidly midwest, but they should fit in just fine)
Perception: 3* (this move wouldn't really impress too many people outside of the State of Pennsylvania)
Overall: 25* (if the conference wants to head east, then this is the obvious choice)
Likelihood: ? (the Big East doesn't offer much, but would Pitt ruin the conference just to take a better deal?)

Rutgers
Athletics: 2* (still trying to get acclimated to FBS; not much of a basketball program; club hockey)
Academics: 4* (AAU; very solid undergrad and grad programs; not heavy into research compared to the rest of the Big Ten)
Rivalries: 1-1/2* (used to be a Penn State whipping boy; no other ready-made rivalries)
Geography: 3-1/2* (a contiguous state near major cities, but this is really dragging the conference toward the East Coast)
Television: 3* (would this really open the New York market? will CFB sell in NYC? it might be worth a shot....)
Compatibility: 3* (a flagship state university, but New Jersey is very far removed from the midwest)
Perception: 1-1/2* (might as well target Kent State....)
Overall: 18-1/2* (outside of the academic fit, this seems like a mismatch; clearly weakens the conference athletically)
Likelihood: ? (a little to like, a lot not to like ... makes more sense if Pitt is also in the bargain)

Syracuse
Athletics: 3* (moribund football program; strong basketball program; club hockey; men's lacrosse is top rate; crappy stadium)
Academics: 2-1/2* (AAU; respectable undergraduate programs, not much in terms of graduate programs or research)
Rivalries: 2-1/2* (Penn State; only other natural rival would be Ohio State)
Geography: 3* (in the middle of nowhere in a contiguous state)
Television: 3-1/2* (not an entry into any big market, but might have some impact in the East Coast)
Compatibility: 2* (private school, not midwest)
Perception: 2* (would be perceived as a step backward for the Big Ten)
Overall: 18-1/2* (Syracuse makes no sense on any level, unless it is part of a package deal with Pitt)
Likelihood: ? (who knows, who really cares? doubt that they make the final cut, unless Pitt and/or Rutgers is also in the mix)

Toronto
Athletics: 2* (football and basketball programs are far from BCS calibre; strong hockey program)
Academics: 5* (AAU; international powerhouse; very strong research)
Rivalries: 1* (would be starting from scratch)
Geography: 2* (international travel is no fun)
Television: 3* (Toronto is a huge market and a good sports town, but would they care about American football?)
Compatibility: 3* (fits the CIC profile to a tee, but not the Big Ten profile at all)
Perception: 1* (would be laughed at on ESPN for years to come)
Overall: 17* (an off-the-wall choice that could pay huge dividends down the road ... or become another University of Chicago)
Likelihood: ? (if football the driving force behind expansion, then this will never happen)

Cincinnati
Athletics: 2* (traditionally mediocre football program; strong basketball; lousy facilities)
Academics: 1-1/2* (not an AAU member; essentially a commuter school; far below Big Ten standards)
Rivalries: 4* (ready-made rivalry with Ohio State; natural rival with at least half of the conference)
Geography: 4* (physcially in the Big Ten, mentally in the SEC)
Television: 2* (solidifies a large Big Ten market, with some in-roads into SEC country)
Compatibility: 1* (just not what the conference is looking for on any level)
Perception: 1-1/2* (would be hailed as a brilliant move in Hamilton County; would get five minutes of coverage on ESPN)
Overall: 16* (would be an abysmal choice that would weaken the conference athletically and academically)
Likelihood: ? (barring an Act of Congress, there is a zero percent chance of UC being invited to the Big Ten)


My vCash is on Texas, with Mizzou being the second choice, and Iowa State being a super dark horse candidate as part of an all-out raid of the Big 12 (Texas, Mizzou, Iowa State, for example).
 
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I always thought notre dame would be the best team if the big 10 expanded. they already play several big 10 teams and if they kept their tv contract with nbc it would give the big 10 a lot more exposure. pitt would make sense too, they're closer than penn st is. cincy would also be good. i wish them and ohio state would play every year. i just don't see texas being a big 10 team, although that would be huge, it's a little out of the way geographic wise. what about west virginia? or louisville? those are just teams that are close so that's my 2 cents.
 
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i really like the handicapping post. especially the comments.

couple of things, though. the categories all range from 1-5, suggesting that no category is more important than any other. could you weight each category with a significance factor so that the overalls could fit reality even better? the nebraska and iowa state people can vouch for the importance of overalls that fit.

also, i don't get 19-1/2 for rutgers here. ?
 
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glenn;1628911; said:
i really like the handicapping post. especially the comments.

couple of things, though. the categories all range from 1-5, suggesting that no category is more important than any other. could you weight each category with a significance factor so that the overalls could fit reality even better? the nebraska and iowa state people can vouch for the importance of overalls that fit.

also, i don't get 19-1/2 for rutgers here. ?
My handicapping post was an update of a post in the Big Ten Expansion thread - HERE - that I started prior to seeing Frank the Tank's blog on rating the candidates. I have to admit that Frank's weighted system makes more sense, but I think that both of us got to the same result, namely that Notre Dame and Texas are the two schools that make the most sense as far as the Big Ten is concerned.

As far as Rutgers being at 19-1/2 stars ... you think that's too high? Well, a couple of years ago, Rutgers probably would have been the favorite to join the Big Ten, at least in the minds of many fans. Personally, I would put Rutgers right at the bottom of my list of "acceptable" schools, but a lot of people were intrigued by the (alleged) gateway to the (mythical) NYC CFB TV market ... and way back then, Rutgers was thought to be an up-and-coming football powerhouse.
 
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i agree, jeff, but i would like to know what priority you place on each category. some are more important than others to you i am sure. also, some may be temporal issues (eg rivalries) and others (eg geography) would be difficult to improve, and i wonder if that might shade your weighting.

good post as is, of course.

my bad on rutgers. i was ambiguous. i just meant when i add their scores here i only get 18-1/2.
 
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