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Which program is in a worse position?

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BigWoof31

BigWoof31

"Barkin' up the wrong tree"
Ohio State is in a unique position to observe two "historically" dominant programs as they flail around, casually bordering on insignificance and quickly moving towards that awful zone of "totally non-appealing to recruits."

Of course I'm referring to Notre Dame and Michigan.
My question to the BP faithful is this: On November 24th, 2008 - which program is in a worse position?

Notre Dame: With their bevy of high expectations and pathetic attempts to create (and win) while playing a laughable schedule? A terribly overpaid coach, poor fundamentals - etc.

Michigan: Worst season in 80 years. Empty cubbards on roster for at least a year. Totally new system to be implimented. Average conditioning (at best). Poorly coached on defense.


So who is it? Please try to be objective as football fans who grew up in a football culture. Do not say:
"Yuk yuk yuk - I think it's Michigan cause we hate them and just beat their butts! Hey, look at mah beard!"
 
BigWoof31;1337049; said:
Ohio State is in a unique position to observe two "historically" dominant programs as they flail around, casually bordering on insignificance and quickly moving towards that awful zone of "totally non-appealing to recruits."

Of course I'm referring to Notre Dame and Michigan.
My question to the BP faithful is this: On November 24th, 2008 - which program is in a worse position?

Notre Dame: With their bevy of high expectations and pathetic attempts to create (and win) while playing a laughable schedule? A terribly overpaid coach, poor fundamentals - etc.

Michigan: Worse season in 80 years. Empty cubbards on roster for at least a year. Totally new system to be implimented. Average conditioning (at best). Poorly coached on defense.


So who is it? Please try to be objective as football fans who grew up in a football culture. Do not say:
"Yuk yuk yuk - I think it's Michigan cause we hate them and just beat their butts! Hey, look at mah beard!"
Click to expand...

Notre Dame.

Michigan is transitioning. They'll be back.

Notre Dame was a program that Irish and Catholic football players grew up worshipping. Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Willis McGahee... If Irish kids like these aren't going to Notre Dame, the program is in trouble.
 
Upvote 0
Yep, it's gotta be NoD.

They're both awful right now, and TSUN is a little more awful. But Weis has had time to prove that he's an awful, incompetent coach. That isn't gonna change. NoD might improve a little more due to some great recruits coming in... But Weis has reached his limit as a college coach, and nobody else worth having is going to ever want to get close to south bend, assuming NoD ponies up the money to oust Weis.

DickRod, on the other hand, has had a miserable first season- and will have a miserable second- but there's at least hope that TSUN will be pretty good in a few years from now. They could be pretty darn good in 2010. No such hope for NoD.
 
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I would have to say that Notre Dame is in a worse position. After 4 years Notre Dame under Charlie has done nothing but get worse. They recruit good talent and they play a laughable schedule and still suck. I think RichRod after 4 years will at least be fielding a competitive team where as Charlie still has a laughing stock of a team after being left a BCS bowl worthy program. Anyone who thought Michigan would compete for a Big Ten title or a BCS game was simply delusional. I can't say that I haven't enjoyed the falls from grace of both teams this year.
 
Upvote 0
Ntre Ame is in an infinitely worse position than Michigan is at this time.

Most everyone with a working brain knew Michigan would struggle some with the new system and the lack of a system QB for the type.

Ntre Ame is looking at a massive buy-out, kids tuning out the program altogether and instead of people forgetting about them since they suck, the hate is getting more intense in some ways. Add to that the lack of development that Fat Boy has saddled his players with, Ntre Ame is at least 3 years away (away from when FatAss is fired) from being anywhere near competitive against other legit opponents.

They haven't beaten a ranked foe since 2005. They haven't beaten anyone with a winning record in their last 15 tries. they are forced to schedule patsy's like Syracuse and San Diego State just to get wins but as we saw in both of those games these aren't give-mes anymore.
 
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Notre Dame...I imagine DickRod still has a few tricks up his sleeve, and he doesn't have anyone of his own volition yet. Weis not only has his own players, but has pretty much tried everything in the holster, from changing the contact level in training camp to calling plays to not calling plays to throwing all the time to running all the time to...he's got very little left he hasn't done, and it's dogshit.

That said, Michigan sucks and I hate their ass :biggrin:
 
Upvote 0
Pretty much agree with everyone else. This has to be Notre Dame. At least scUM can hang their hat on the fact that DickRod has been successful as a head coach. Fat Charlie hasn't proven anything except that he can be a pretty good offensive coach - if he cheats!
 
Upvote 0
Notre Dame, if you are talking money.

Michigan will get around 13 million through distribution of TV and Big Ten Bowl money.
Notre Dame is getting around 9 million TV money and very little(if any) bowl money this year.

Next year Michigan will be in year two of their rebuilding.
This year will mark the fourth year of Weis's rebuilding. Next year could be year one of someone else's rebuilding year. That would mean they will have to pay two contracts next year if that would happen.
 
Upvote 0
Michigan.

Notre Dame is still bringing in top talent, and some day fairly soon it will all click ... although Weis either: (a) won't be around to enjoy the ride, or (b) will manage to blow his chance for an NC through his own bad coaching. Talent on the field usually manages to overcome lack of talent on the sidelines ... and Notre Dame will have the benefit of easy schedules.

Weis = John Cooper.

Michigan is bringing in system talent for a system that probably won't work in the Big Ten, meaning that RichRod's teams will likely peak somewhere just past perennial mediocrity ... and his replacement will have to start over with a bunch of kids who won't be suited for his system. The Wolverines could be down for the better part of a decade if the "spread fail" doesn't provide dramatic improvement by 2010. Also, RichRod is lowering the bar in terms of admissions standards, and that will not bode well long term.

RichRod = John Blake, David McWilliams, Mike DuBose, Paul Hackett, Bill Callahan, etc.
 
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