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What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

  • Talent / Players

    Votes: 29 11.8%
  • Scheme / Coaching

    Votes: 127 51.8%
  • Both are substandard

    Votes: 71 29.0%
  • Neither - B1G offenses are unstoppable

    Votes: 10 4.1%
  • I don't care - just fire Fickell!

    Votes: 8 3.3%

  • Total voters
    245
It's not the players…

Well, at least not entirely. They are not up to the standards of the Tressel years, not even 2006, which was the weaker (and greener) years. Talent level may be at recent low, as evidenced by the lack of recent Buckeye defensive players getting drafted or sticking in the NFL. Recently there's been Jenkins, Heyward, Hankins, Simon? Distinct lack of Safeties, CBs, DE, and LBs. OK, so there's not NFL talent oozing out of Columbus that there has been in the past. So what? You don't need NFL talent to slow down the mediocre QBs and WRs (save for the Wisconsin guy and PSU guy) this team has faced this year. We can go back to last year. We can go back a couple years. Heck, we could even go back to Vandenberg for Iowa having the distinct pleasure of lighting up the secondary despite being a lackluster QB before and after. It's a level playing field out there, guys. The rest of the Big Ten is not rolling out unstoppable offenses (despite some of them improving in recent years) and they surely don't have more talent on the roster than that of the Buckeyes. Why do middle of the road QBs and middle of the road WRs put up outlier statistics against the Buckeyes defense? Ohio State has recruited better than 99% of the teams it plays. There are some misses, there are some deflections, there's a lot of shit that happens, but you know what…it happens everywhere. Literally everywhere. The players fielded by Ohio State's two deep dwarf the B1G. Maybe it doesn't match up with that of some other top programs (Alabama, Florida State this year), but it does against this schedule.

It used to be that a balanced team with a decent pass game and decent RB or 2 could create issues. Teams this year haven't even tried to run on the Buckeyes. There's a reason no one had a 20 yard run before Scheelhause and why there hasn't been 100 yard rusher. There's no need. Middle of the Big Ten quarterbacks have created havoc by completing passes to open receivers. There's an issue. Is it the scheme? There's nothing wrong with a Cover 4 defense. It works elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with giving receivers a cushion. It works elsewhere. Why is there such issues here? How do you get production out of it? Opposing coaches are currently exploiting, and have been exploiting it. My gripes are echoed by other people and other posters. Soft coverage too often, defensive line not being set prior to the snap, the whole defense showing one alignment and not getting back into their actual alignment in time to defend the pass.

Think back a couple seasons. There was some question as to what and how the Ohio State offense functioned, or in many cases didn't function. There was a lack of identity, a lack of cohesive action, a lack of production. The fans saw it. Opposing coaches obviously saw it. I think in many ways, the Ohio State defense is in the position that the offense (and offensive line) was in several years ago. Exact same position. It's not that the players weren't there. It's not that the coaching was all bad. It just didn't work. Plain and simple didn't work. It took a herculean effort by individual players, many players who ended up in the NFL, for it to work. So what happened? Urban Meyer gets hired and the offensive coaching staff got canned. Every single one of them minus the WR coach errr RB coach. New offensive coordinator and new offensive line coach steps in, blows it up, and look where we are now on that side of the ball. Miller is by far a better QB than he was prior (though it could be contributed to age), I think his mechanics and understanding of the offense is far above that of Pryor, I might even say Troy Smith (in terms of pure mechanics). It was changed because it wasn't working previously. They blew it up, and now Ohio State has one of the most dangerous rushing attacks in the nation and a passing game that has shown it's effective.

So that's where we are now. It needs to be blown up.
 
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It's not the players…

Well, at least not entirely. They are not up to the standards of the Tressel years, not even 2006, which was the weaker (and greener) years. Talent level may be at recent low, as evidenced by the lack of recent Buckeye defensive players getting drafted or sticking in the NFL. Recently there's been Jenkins, Heyward, Hankins, Simon? Distinct lack of Safeties, CBs, DE, and LBs. OK, so there's not NFL talent oozing out of Columbus that there has been in the past. So what? You don't need NFL talent to slow down the mediocre QBs and WRs (save for the Wisconsin guy and PSU guy) this team has faced this year. We can go back to last year. We can go back a couple years. Heck, we could even go back to Vandenberg for Iowa having the distinct pleasure of lighting up the secondary despite being a lackluster QB before and after. It's a level playing field out there, guys. The rest of the Big Ten is not rolling out unstoppable offenses (despite some of them improving in recent years) and they surely don't have more talent on the roster than that of the Buckeyes. Why do middle of the road QBs and middle of the road WRs put up outlier statistics against the Buckeyes defense? Ohio State has recruited better than 99% of the teams it plays. There are some misses, there are some deflections, there's a lot of [Mark May] that happens, but you know what…it happens everywhere. Literally everywhere. The players fielded by Ohio State's two deep dwarf the B1G. Maybe it doesn't match up with that of some other top programs (Alabama, Florida State this year), but it does against this schedule.

It used to be that a balanced team with a decent pass game and decent RB or 2 could create issues. Teams this year haven't even tried to run on the Buckeyes. There's a reason no one had a 20 yard run before Scheelhause and why there hasn't been 100 yard rusher. There's no need. Middle of the Big Ten quarterbacks have created havoc by completing passes to open receivers. There's an issue. Is it the scheme? There's nothing wrong with a Cover 4 defense. It works elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with giving receivers a cushion. It works elsewhere. Why is there such issues here? How do you get production out of it? Opposing coaches are currently exploiting, and have been exploiting it. My gripes are echoed by other people and other posters. Soft coverage too often, defensive line not being set prior to the snap, the whole defense showing one alignment and not getting back into their actual alignment in time to defend the pass.

Think back a couple seasons. There was some question as to what and how the Ohio State offense functioned, or in many cases didn't function. There was a lack of identity, a lack of cohesive action, a lack of production. The fans saw it. Opposing coaches obviously saw it. I think in many ways, the Ohio State defense is in the position that the offense (and offensive line) was in several years ago. Exact same position. It's not that the players weren't there. It's not that the coaching was all bad. It just didn't work. Plain and simple didn't work. It took a herculean effort by individual players, many players who ended up in the NFL, for it to work. So what happened? Urban Meyer gets hired and the offensive coaching staff got canned. Every single one of them minus the WR coach errr RB coach. New offensive coordinator and new offensive line coach steps in, blows it up, and look where we are now on that side of the ball. Miller is by far a better QB than he was prior (though it could be contributed to age), I think his mechanics and understanding of the offense is far above that of Pryor, I might even say Troy Smith (in terms of pure mechanics). It was changed because it wasn't working previously. They blew it up, and now Ohio State has one of the most dangerous rushing attacks in the nation and a passing game that has shown it's effective.

So that's where we are now. It needs to be blown up.

Nice read Poe. After watching this team over the last several years and comparing it to past Ohio State defenses, I see multiple issues.

1 - Coaching - Now we are complaining about the defense like we use to complain about the offense under Tressel. It's really simple to me. Hire the coaches that meet your pre-reqs (tireless coach that knows the Xs and Os of the game; solid recruiter that builds relationships short and long term with player, family, and coaches, and lastly has an adjustable gameplan and ego. This is an area our D-coaches are lacking IMO) Recruit the players that fit the team you want on the field (offensively OSU is there but defensively there are issues. Here, OSU is recruiting alot of great athletes but a few of them in key areas (MLB / Safety) are lacking the skill sets to be OSU caliber position players and our coaches are unable to get them trained up to play their projected position).

2. - Schemes - I can go on and on about this. Soft zones, bad tackling, etc. etc. You do not play 10 yards off a receiver on short yardage plays. You do not rush 3 on 3rd and long when your guys can't cover. Poor gap discipline. enough said. Schemes are too vanilla. Is that because our talent level on D? or recruiting the wrong guys for our defense...which leads me to this.

3. Recruiting - Yes, recruiting. Since Urban has come on board, our offense is a hell of alot better and we got all the bases covered as it appears on Offense. However, the back seven on Defense is lacking as we have seen. The D-line is very good for a young group and very deep. What we're lacking at LB is a true MLB ala Little Animal, Schlegal, Wilhelm, etc. We need a MLB that can call a game and get guys where they need to be. See what happened last year when we brought Boren over to D? Besides Shazier, we have a bunch of great athletes at LB and D-back but their football IQ might be lacking. What I mean by this is they have always gotten by on athletic ability alone. Roby and Grant are very good cover guys. The problems are with our safetys. Even with Bryant in, he was good at run support but still questionable in pass coverage. Sometimes I feel we are playing with 3 d-backs and 1 LB at times. Personally, I think its time to bring in Vonn Bell, Trey Johnson, and a few other young guys to replace Pittsburgh and C. Grant.

I take into account this is a young defense (with many 1st year starters) but over the years most OSU defenses have jelled into a unit by now.

It's time for the coaches to make a couple of suttle changes and give they younger guys some shots against the Spartans in certain situations. This includes Vonn Bell (S), Trey Johnson (LB), Gareon Conley (CB) and Cam Burrows (CB).
 
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I've held off on commenting in this thread because I'm not an X's and O's guy at all. However, I keep seeing recruiting misses and/or lack of talent being mentioned as one of the reasons that the defense is struggling. I don't remember there being a significant drop in any recruiting between Dantonio/Heacock and Fickell/Withers.

Dantonio/Heacock seemed to have plenty of luck developling 3* guys (Hawk, Laurinaitis, Jenkins, Hankins...). Dantonio and Narduzzi are able to take a slew of 2* (Dennard) and 3* guys and mold them into one of the best defenses in the country.

Admittedly, some guys won't pan out, but if no one is panning out over 3 recruiting classes that seems to be a bad trend that I don't think you can just keep throwing 4* recruits at every year and hoping it fixes itself.
 
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I've held off on commenting in this thread because I'm not an X's and O's guy at all. However, I keep seeing recruiting misses and/or lack of talent being mentioned as one of the reasons that the defense is struggling. I don't remember there being a significant drop in any recruiting between Dantonio/Heacock and Fickell/Withers.

Dantonio/Heacock seemed to have plenty of luck developling 3* guys (Hawk, Laurinaitis, Jenkins, Hankins...). Dantonio and Narduzzi are able to take a slew of 2* (Dennard) and 3* guys and mold them into one of the best defenses in the country.

Admittedly, some guys won't pan out, but if no one is panning out over 3 recruiting classes that seems to be a bad trend that I don't think you can just keep throwing 4* recruits at every year and hoping it fixes itself.
Which is why like Poe said. It needs to be blown up. I'll say this if we lose one or both of our final 2 games and get scored on big time in either loses then I have no doubt urban goes out and makes a move.

I hate waiting to change until it comes back to bite you. So in saying that even if we win both remaining games I'd like to see a change because I just don't think this is going to magically turn around.

I see Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan state, and sometimes Nebraska that don't look as poor as we do on defense and none of those teams have the recruits we have.

One thing else I've thought about is our defense struggles because they know our offense is going to put up points so there is zero urgency or desperation in their game. Ever notice how in a close game when our offense is forced to punt all the sudden our defense comes up with a stand? Well on the same token when we score points I feel the defense doesn't agonize over points or yardage put up on them which is wrong and it's the coaches jobs to keep these guys hungry.

With all the bad play lately you have to figure if it was a player issue they would've dug deep and fixed it. Problem is they're stuck executing the same crap scheme being taught from the same coaches. You don't execute poorly this many times in three years.
 
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Defense is as much about tackling as it is having a solid base formation which can be modified to fit whatever the offense is doing.

The biggest problem on Saturday was scUM plays were designed to exploit Ohio State's defensive tendencies - especially that damned throwback pass they ran over and over again. Some of the big plays were blown coverages as well, but that somewhat falls into a similar category of having a solid base formation. Ohio State hasn't had that in 2 years now.

It's like they are still experimenting with what works and what doesn't, but they haven't found what fits quite yet.
 
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When you see a team like LSU with a defense getting ripped apart after they lost a bunch of guys to the draft, you understand the role of experience in college football. Georgia, too. A down year in the mighty SEC because of youth on defense. We need to win any way we can. That will mean out scoring people for now.
We can coach the kids to stay in position for trick plays like the throwback screens. That will help eliminate some very big plays.
 
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It_Stinks.jpg
 
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