What's Wrong With the 2013 Defense?

[Woody1968]

Or, not have a DE guard a TE who is fast enough to outrun a corner...

Maybe Spence is one of the two players we have that can play press coverage, as per Withers?

 

[SEREbuckeye]

this year we do not have the same talent that Alabama possesses. I would not even try to compare our defense with theirs and Kirby Smart has been around the block a while.

I would. We have a much better Scoring Defense and a better Rushing Defense. The SEC is full of teams with crap defenses (TAMU, LSU, Missouri, Georgia, SC). Bama is strong on the Pass D, but thats about it.

I think our issues are coaching. I don't put all the blame on Fickell. Im not his fan boy, but c'mon he is a CO-DC, not a 100% DC; therefore you have to share the blame with Withers and Coombs.

Our Secondary is the problem with both player performance and schemes called. Just like Urban Meyer has to rely on his assistant coaches to prep their respective parts and feed them the information needed to make adjustments, Fickell has to do the same with Withers and Coombs. If these two aren't making a great product, it doesn't matter what play gets called for the defense. Outside of the run game, all the defensive coaches have answering to do.

 

[Woody1968]

Sure but making a receiver fight to get off the LoS could make all the difference in the world with our D-line. As it stands we must give up more "free" yardage than anyone in the country. 3rd and 3 you say? Back our corners off 10-15 yards so they don't get burned deep. I wouldn't care if we only had 1 star talent, that doesn't work. Make receivers work for it, and make an O-line block our D-line for more than a three step drop.

I agree to an extent. But the problem is that our guys are just not playing in proper position regardless. Roby can jam the receivers, but I haven't seen anything to show me that the other DBs can. It seems that our guys are getting torched from the second the ball is snapped. Look at Iowa's second TD. We brought pressure up front, and the DBs never even moved, despite the fact that the Iowa receiver ran through both of their areas of responsibility. That is not the coaches fault. That is confusion and lack of awareness on the part of the players.

One plus I can see is that CJ Barnett has been tackling much better the last two games.

 

[Woody1968]

I would argue a TE just running past Armani Reeves (who was timed at a 4.41 in camp) without him reacting has little to do with talent and everything to do with the secondary coaching. Our DBs simply don't know how to cover a receiver, and that comes down to the coaching they are receiving. Even Roby's been getting burnt

I agree, there is a problem with the position coaching. But it is not the overall scheme, it is the execution by the secondary.

 

[RB07OSU]

Mostly scheme. Great point on attrition hurting us talent-wise (Dorian Bell, Fellows, etc.) and I knew there would be some growing pains with the defense. My issue is that there is zero progression and I don't see any adjustments. I think that the talent is there in the secondary but we aren't utilizing it right. I'm not going to go into the X's and O's, but something needs changed and fast. Simply put, this is not a championship caliber defense. We might lose to someone in the Big Ten (Indiana's offense scares me with our defense) if we don't improve...and we certainly wouldn't be able to stop the Alabamas and Oregons of the world.

 

[kippy1040]

Problem is that talent is all freshmen and red shirt freshmen...this d has 2 new starters in the secondary, 2 new linebackers, and at least 2 new starters on the line...we are young but again most others can scheme around problems


I've said for the past few weeks there will be no more CoDC next year, I suspect Withers will leave for another job, Combs is great and fiery but wonder about his coaching.. Fickell seems lost without Heacock, I know he'll be good but he's young and perhaps need more grooming. Vrabel seems to be doing a good job.

"Fickell seems lost without Heacock" Didn't I read somewhere in BP that Heacock was last seen, somewhere in the WHAC practice facility offering some defensive strategy to the other coaches before the season started.
I always thought he was a pretty damn good defensive co/ordinator

 

[Mike80]

I see 3 things that look obvious to me at least.

1. The players don't trust each other yet. I think this is mostly attributable to a lot of new faces in new places. Why they haven't gelled yet I don't know.

2. The players don't trust the scheme. I think this is clear, the players on the field are thinking instead of flying around making plays, especially when the other team starts passing the ball.

3. The coaches don't trust the players they have on the field within the scheme and this is especially apparent when the game is close in between the 20s. That is why we are seeing charmin-soft zones 80% of the time on passing downs.


I don't know the reason for #1. I think I know why #2 is happening, but I don't know the fix for it. For the 3rd, I think it's the biggest problem, the coaches see these guys every day in practice, they know what these players can do better than any of us, but they aren't being put into a position to succeed intentionally, for fear of getting burned. There is clearly an issue with #3, and I don't see it getting fixed this year.

 

[AuTX Buckeye]

"Fickell seems lost without Heacock" Didn't I read somewhere in BP that Heacock was last seen, somewhere in the WHAC practice facility offering some defensive strategy to the other coaches before the season started.
I always thought he was a pretty damn good defensive co/ordinator

Yes Heacock, is/was around but i offer this.. Gerg Robinson was in the same sorta roll with tejas.. Its one thing to help plan and offer suggestions its another to heed the advice and listen.. Thats what happened with Diaz and Gerg.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

I agree to an extent. But the problem is that our guys are just not playing in proper position regardless. Roby can jam the receivers, but I haven't seen anything to show me that the other DBs can. It seems that our guys are getting torched from the second the ball is snapped. Look at Iowa's second TD. We brought pressure up front, and the DBs never even moved, despite the fact that the Iowa receiver ran through both of their areas of responsibility. That is not the coaches fault. That is confusion and lack of awareness on the part of the players.

One plus I can see is that CJ Barnett has been tackling much better the last two games.

I don't disagree with you here(1st bold), so does it really matter(2nd bold)? I'll be real honest and say my biggest disappointment with the defense is that I feel like our D-Line is being cheated. Maybe it's the scarlet colored glasses talking here but I feel like we should be talking about the best defensive line in the country rather than a questionable secondary. These guys have come close on three step drops over the last nineteen, gotta find a way to give them that extra step. I mean I know we seem to be protecting some kind of weakness in the secondary, but wouldn't bolstering the D-line pass rush protect it better? I mean how bad can our DB's be in man to man bump and run that they let QB's and WR's play catch in front of them all day(not sure I'd want to find out but...)? Lining up 10 yards off the LoS on 3rd and 3, while rushing 3, isn't a player problem.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

5th year Senior leaders on defense from Ohio State's #1 ranked recruiting class in 2009: Jonathan Newsome, Dominic Clarke, Melvin Fellows, Dorian Bell, Jamie Wood, Jordan Whiting.

So there's that ...

Excellent point. Urb landed studs on the D line in his very first, short lived class and Vrabel has done a great job coaching. Coaching/Scheme 80% and talent 20% but that's just because the LB core and secondary is still too young. That being said there is enough talent to be playing better. I expect one of Fick or Withers to move on after this season.

 

[Poe McKnoe]

this year we do not have the same talent that Alabama possesses. I would not even try to compare our defense with theirs and Kirby Smart has been around the block a while.

I'm not saying "if Ohio State did this, they would be Alabama". I'm saying that Alabama, as one of the top defenses in the nation year in and year out, appears to have superior communication between position players, position coaches, and the defensive coordinator. Ohio State may not have the talent of Bama, or the experience on the feed, but they are talented enough to defend against Iowa's offensive skill position players. The fact that they can't reduce the # of wide open receivers week after week is alarming. While some of the receivers have become open due to blown man-man assignments, the majority have been breakdowns in zone coverage: not getting deep enough, over committing etc. Zone is requires a defender to defend his zone. Time after time, the opposing QB continually finds open receivers in between zones. There's nothing wrong with a zones defense, OSU has been playing it for years. Not sure how there is not one defensive back who can play either or a combination of the two.

 

[Woody1968]

I don't disagree with you here(1st bold), so does it really matter(2nd bold)? I'll be real honest and say my biggest disappointment with the defense is that I feel like our D-Line is being cheated. Maybe it's the scarlet colored glasses talking here but I feel like we should be talking about the best defensive line in the country rather than a questionable secondary. These guys have come close on three step drops over the last nineteen, gotta find a way to give them that extra step. I mean I know we seem to be protecting some kind of weakness in the secondary, but wouldn't bolstering the D-line pass rush protect it better? I mean how bad can our DB's be in man to man bump and run that they let QB's and WR's play catch in front of them all day(not sure I'd want to find out but...)? Lining up 10 yards off the LoS on 3rd and 3, while rushing 3, isn't a player problem.

They are supposed to break on the receivers when the ball is leaving the QB, not wait until after the receiver has it. They are not anticipating or reacting, and they are not making plays. The second Iowa TD is a prime example. The receiver was not at the goal line, he was in the back of the end zone, and neither DB even moved to cover him, or looked to see where he was after he ran past them.

 

[MSURacerDT55]

"Fickell seems lost without Heacock" Didn't I read somewhere in BP that Heacock was last seen, somewhere in the WHAC practice facility offering some defensive strategy to the other coaches before the season started.
I always thought he was a pretty damn good defensive co/ordinator

I totally agree with this, Heacock had good enough defenses to Dominate the B1G and complete in bowl games. We are nowhere near that right now.

Urb is going to have a tough decision to make....I wouldn't necessarily get rid of Fickell because he is such a good recruiter but changes HAVE TO BE made this offseason

 

[Mike80]

It might be because there are so many Co-DCs that the multitude of voices has causing a slightly mixed message. The coaches may all be on the same sheet of music, but they might be on different stanzas or something.

 

[buckeyemania11]

The scheme......it's mind boggling that they continue to go with something that obviously does not work