ttun Shenanigans and Arguments (2018 thread)

[LordJeffBuck]

Given the way recruiting has gone and continues to go, no reason to expect that to change. Even their highly rated 2016-17 classes were built mainly on quantity over quality. The difference in average star-rating is significant. And the way the bungled their 2018 class is going to have a significant impact down the road.

I'll give Harbrau a pass on his first recruiting class (2015, when he signed only 14 players and finished 37th) because he came in a couple of months before signing day (and for the sake of this argument I'll ignore the fact that Urban Meyer finished 5th in his partial recruiting season in 2012).

Let's compare the past three recruiting classes using the 247 Composite:

OHIO STATE

Classes	5-stars	4-stars	3-stars	AvgStar	AvgRank
2018	3	20	3	4.00	94.29
2017	5	14	2	4.33	94.59
2016	1	17	7	3.76	91.56
Total	9	51	12	3.96	93.43

MICHIGAN

Classes	5-stars	4-stars	3-stars	AvgStar	AvgRank
2018	0	7	12	3.37	88.75
2017	2	19	8	3.79	91.20
2016	1	13	14	3.54	89.86
Total	3	39	34	3.59	90.09

So basically, Urban's worst class (2016) was almost exactly equal to Harbrau's best class (2017), and overall each of Urban's recruits is 1/3 of a star and 3-1/3 points better than each of Harbrau's recruits.

Even though Urban holds a clear edge in 5-stars (9 to 3) and 4-stars (51 to 39), the main difference is in 3-stars, where Harbrau has signed 34 to Urban's 12. Signing an average of a dozen 3-star players a year seems like a recipe for failure, at least if your goal is to compete with the likes of Ohio State and win a Big Ten title (much less a national championship).

 

[NFBuck]

I'll give Harbrau a pass on his first recruiting class (2015, when he signed only 14 players and finished 37th) because he came in a couple of months before signing day (and for the sake of this argument I'll ignore the fact that Urban Meyer finished 5th in his partial recruiting season in 2012).

Let's compare the past three recruiting classes using the 247 Composite:

OHIO STATE

Classes	5-stars	4-stars	3-stars	AvgStar	AvgRank
2018	3	20	3	4.00	94.29
2017	5	14	2	4.33	94.59
2016	1	17	7	3.76	91.56
Total	9	51	12	3.96	93.43

MICHIGAN

Classes	5-stars	4-stars	3-stars	AvgStar	AvgRank
2018	0	7	12	3.37	88.75
2017	2	19	8	3.79	91.20
2016	1	13	14	3.54	89.86
Total	3	39	34	3.59	90.09

So basically, Urban's worst class (2016) was almost exactly equal to Harbrau's best class (2017), and overall each of Urban's recruits is 1/3 of a star and 3-1/3 points better than each of Harbrau's recruits.

Even though Urban holds a clear edge in 5-stars (9 to 3) and 4-stars (51 to 39), the main difference is in 3-stars, where Harbrau has signed 34 to Urban's 12. Signing an average of a dozen 3-star players a year seems like a recipe for failure, at least if your goal is to compete with the likes of Ohio State and win a Big Ten title (much less a national championship).

Three star heaven.

 

[Jaxbuck]

A slide down to a top 20 class isn’t a huge deal, especially when the next class is looking like an early bet to be top 10 as well

As one would expect from the DFBIA, he is dead wrong.

You cannot punt a recruiting class and compete at the very top of CFB.

 

[Mike80]

The best (or at least most consistent) M*ch*gan teams are usually stocked with Ohio kids.

If you look at Harbrau's recruiting classes, you see 2 or 3 per class, but usually not very many. Ohio kids have special powers, and scUM isn't getting them.

 

[buckeyemania11]

Even if their next class lands in the top 10 (which i'm guessing would be in the 7-10 range) that's not nearly enough to make up for this years complete flop. They'll be feeling this class for the next 3/4 years unless some magical shit happens and their 11 500+ national rated recruits somehow end up being studs.

 

[Jaxbuck]

In fairness, and in the interest of promoting a long Harbaugh tenure in West Ypsilanti, the BigTen is a good bit tougher now than it was during Hoke's tenure; especially his best, squeak-by-a-fraudulent-schedule, 2011 season.

In counter fairness; Brady Hoke took over a roster full of Rich Rod's slot dots

RainMan inherited a roster full of guys who were recruited for the same style of offense he runs

I will argue with anyone that Hoke > Jim Kardashian at the same points in their scUM coaching careers.

 

[jwinslow]

As one would expect from the DFBIA, he is dead wrong.

You cannot punt a recruiting class and compete at the very top of CFB.

You can make a strong argument that a weaker 2015 class held back OSU recently. It was noticeably weaker than most of the classes around it and even more flawed when many of the headliners didn't quite pan out

 

[AJHawkfan]

In counter fairness; Brady Hoke took over a roster full of Rich Rod's slot dots.

And managed to win a BCS bowl game in his first season - over VaTech in the Sugar Bowl, I think.

 

[zincfinger]

In counter fairness; Brady Hoke took over a roster full of Rich Rod's slot dots

RainMan inherited a roster full of guys who were recruited for the same style of offense he runs

I will argue with anyone that Hoke > Jim Kardashian at the same points in their scUM coaching careers.

That's a good point: Hoke arguably did more to return Michigan to mediocrity than Harbaugh did. But I'll still maintain Hoke's record was padded by having one season against an effectively OSU-free conference.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

And managed to win a BCS bowl game in his first season - over VaTech in the Sugar Bowl, I think.

One of the most hollow BCS wins of all time. What a crock of shit that game was from start to finish.

 

[AJHawkfan]

One of the most hollow BCS wins of all time. What a crock of shit that game was from start to finish.

Perhaps, but you could probably make the argument that the program hasn't had bigger, more meaningful win since.

 

[buckeyemania11]

Perhaps, but you could probably make the argument that the program hasn't had bigger, more meaningful win since.

That was pretty much their "high point" of the last decade+

Since the turn of the century "meaningful" wins are hard to come by for them.

You got that Sugar Bowl win and beating Penn State in 2005 to keep them from being undefeated, pretty much. Having a hard time coming up with anything else. I guess the Orange Bowl over Bama technically happened after the century turned, but it was the 1999 season.

They loved bragging about beating Florida in the Capital One Bowl in 08.....but how meaningful was that, a good but not great Florida team.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

One of the most hollow BCS wins of all time. What a crock of shit that game was from start to finish.

Let's not forget that scUM backed into that BCS Bowl game without winning either the Big Ten or their own division.

 

[Jaxbuck]

You can make a strong argument that a weaker 2015 class held back OSU recently. It was noticeably weaker than most of the classes around it and even more flawed when many of the headliners didn't quite pan out

I believe I made that very argument in a thread yesterday. Urban said it many times as well. That '15 class still has a bunch of guys they are having to recruit over.

......and that class was ranked 7th. These morons are "no big deal"ing a 21.

 

[muffler dragon]

In fairness, and in the interest of promoting a long Harbaugh tenure in West Ypsilanti, the BigTen is a good bit tougher now than it was during Hoke's tenure; especially his best, squeak-by-a-fraudulent-schedule, 2011 season.

That's some righteousness right there.
It always cracks me up to see Vulvarines ripping on Columbus as though Ann Arbor is an American Utopia. I lived in Ypsi for 4 years. Ann Arbor ain't no utopia. Sure, the campus can be nice in areas, but the area overall is nothing to rave over at all.