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Game Thread tOSU vs. Penn St. (Dark Night in the 'Shoe) Sat 10/17 @ 8p ET, ABC/ESPN/ESPN2

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BuckeyeNation27 said:
They also don't allow facial hair. Because they're pretty dumb about stuff like that.
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jwinslow said:
OSU should have had their title chase derailed by an already suspended officiating crew vs Illinois in 07. Luckily the entire world decided they didn't like playing for a championship, so OSU backed in to the game later (and in the #1 spot of all things).

The two no calls on the pick play TD and the non-reviewed fumble touchback were game-changing calls (and 14 pt swings), but that wasn't a conspiracy nor the main reason they lost. They lost because they got outplayed, outphysicaled and outhustled by a much worse team.


That game flies directly in the face of the astonishingly large contingent of PSU fans on message boards that believe the league hates and conspires against them (and for OSU/UM) at every turn.
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The thing I remember about that 07 Illinois game was that how time and time again Juice was able to convert a 3rd or 4th and short - and the OSU D absolutely could not stop the QB draw. Say what you want about Juice and Ron Zook, but they got us that day.

I also remember that my daughter's 8th grade basketball coach went to her first OSU game for that Illinois tilt - and I blamed her for the loss!

And you are right about those calls/non-calls. Terrible, but as you say, they aren't why OSU lost.

BuckeyeNation27 said:
Here's the thing about dumb fans and complaining about holding. When dumb fans (and I mean dumb as in football smarts. I'm a dumb fan. I don't know Xs and Os to save my life) watch a game, we just watch the QB. When we're on offense, we're looking to see where he's going with the ball. When we're on defense, we're watching our DLinemen try to get to the other QB. At the end of the game, you're going to come away thinking the other team got away with holding, because you never saw your team hold. You never looked for it, but you never saw it. That's how every person on BWI watches games....but not only are they football dumb, they're just dumb. They're too dumb to know that they didn't see Penn State holding because they weren't watching for Penn State holding, they just believe they weren't holding because Joe didn't tell them they were holding.

The B1G as a conference lets A LOT of holding go. It seems like it has been this way for years. To bitch about Ohio State getting away with holding because none were called is pure stupidity.
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There is a lot of truth to that. I think a lot of fans don't realize that an offensive player can grab a hold of an opponent (in my day's football terminology) by "the tits" - and push, shove, and control that player in that way, but legal blocking turns into holding when the defensive player turns their body, and gets some separation laterally, and then you have to let go. I've been around a lot of fans who see an offensive player grabbing a defender by the tits, and begin screaming, "Holding! Call the holding!", and I'm like, "Uh, that's legal. Yes, he has a hold of him, but that's not a holding penalty.", and they look at me like I have 3 heads.

Refs and umps have to watch 5 linemen, a TE, WR's, and any backs that are blocking on a given play, especially running plays. They are going to miss some. Plus you have to think about the flow of the game. If every hold was called, the games would last 4 1/2 hours, everyone would have 1st, 2nd, or 3rd and 15-20 to go, and no one could put a scoring drive together. I'm ok with them only calling the most egregious examples. I remember the days when I would see Dave Witvoet's crew out there and just know that every time the Bucks ripped off a 20 yard run it would be coming back. Dave doesn't call near as many holds as he used to.
 
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OSUK said:
OK, but my point is that vs. scUM 05, Iowa 08, OSU 14, etc., etc., the Penn State football players and coaches made thousands of decisions and took thousands of actions that determined those games. The only way the logic works that PSU is getting jobbed by officials is if the decisions/actions are not being accounted for, and any official's call is being looked at in a vacuum, separate from all the things PSU had control of during those games. Ohio State hasn't been losing much lately, but when they have (MSU 13, Clemson 13-14, VT 14) I don't remember anyone on this forum or others talking about officiating. It was more about Ohio State's execution - or lack thereof, and the opponent's good play. The bottom line is that if one or two calls determine whether you win or lose, then you have put yourself in the situation where one or two calls can cost you.

They are not my offensive line. I have never met any one of them or have any kind of relationship to them other than as a fan. If they hold and it gets called then I'm not complaining. If they hold and are good enough at it to get away with it, then that's awesome. Consider that maybe the reason they don't get called for holding much is that they are superbly coached and are really good at their craft. You might also want to consider that officials can't see everything, and also that what many fans think is holding isn't really holding. Those are all alternatives to pulling the bias or incompetence card. I think B1G officials are pretty good. They make the right calls most of the time, blow a few, and have a few that are questionable every game. My problem begins when someone suggests they determine a game - any game. It's just not happening.
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I think I was answering your original question of why a fanbase would be upset.. One call can change the outcome of a game.. I think you got yourself a flag to extend a national title game one year. You don't get that flag and you would be okay with saying that you had numerous other chances to win the game? I though it was a good call, but I've seen it not called. Miami certainly didn't think it was a good call. In fact, that season you were one play away from losing several different games. One bad call that ends your dream season might tick you off a little bit.. how about if Michigan benefits from a terrible call to beat you this year in a close, hard fought game? I'm sure you'll give credit to Michigan. You certainly might be that guy.. but I doubt your fanbase would be so understanding.

As for holding, I understand why your offensive line wouldn't get called for holding much as it was outstanding.. but the whole big ten season? I'm one of the dumb fans. I don't know anything about x's and o's other than tecmo bowl.. but I do watch our defensive linemen pretty closely as they're usually our best players. I do notice when they're turned around and being held trying to get to a qb or rb. I'll pay attention to "your" d-line too.. I refer them as yours because you're a buckeye fan.. my apologies.. but I'll notice them running free and probably being tackled a couple times by our offensive line. It might get called a couple times but we'll get away with it too.. big ten officials don't call holding very often. I don't know why, but they don't.
 
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First of all, thanks for stopping by and hopefully you can stick around, though as a pseudo rival it might get a bit chippy in here :) You've been a quality contributor so far
I think I was answering your original question of why a fanbase would be upset.. One call can change the outcome of a game.. I think you got yourself a flag to extend a national title game one year. You don't get that flag and you would be okay with saying that you had numerous other chances to win the game? I though it was a good call, but I've seen it not called. Miami certainly didn't think it was a good call.
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Gamble was raped. TWICE. on a late third down to ice the game against Miami. He also caught the ball in bounds. None of those three things were called properly, so OSU had to punt. AJ Hawk was blatantly clipped as he slowed right in front of the punt returner ,springing their anemic offense for 20+ yds and the game tying FG. Then OT began and the flag occurred.

Stuff happens. The reason other PSU fans draw such a reputation is because of the wild conspiracies spouted on their message boards, and how jealousy drives the man to keep PSU down.
As for holding, I understand why your offensive line wouldn't get called for holding much as it was outstanding.. but the whole big ten season? I'm one of the dumb fans. I don't know anything about x's and o's other than tecmo bowl.. but I do watch our defensive linemen pretty closely as they're usually our best players. I do notice when they're turned around and being held trying to get to a qb or rb. I'll pay attention to "your" d-line too.. I refer them as yours because you're a buckeye fan.. my apologies.. but I'll notice them running free and probably being tackled a couple times by our offensive line. It might get called a couple times but we'll get away with it too.. big ten officials don't call holding very often. I don't know why, but they don't.
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That's how the league is played. It's the same way in basketball, rampant, illegal molestation by all big bodies. They say that they can call holding on every play, and on any passing down, there is some egregious rule breaking going on at one of the spots almost every time. I have no idea how the refs decide when to stop ignoring it.
 
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jwinslow said:
First of all, thanks for stopping by and hopefully you can stick around, though as a pseudo rival it might get a bit chippy in here :) You've been a quality contributor so farGamble was raped. TWICE. on a late third down to ice the game against Miami. He also caught the ball in bounds. None of those three things were called properly, so OSU had to punt. AJ Hawk was blatantly clipped as he slowed right in front of the punt returner ,springing their anemic offense for 20+ yds and the game tying FG. Then OT began and the flag occurred.

Stuff happens. The reason other PSU fans draw such a reputation is because of the wild conspiracies spouted on their message boards, and how jealousy drives the man to keep PSU down. That's how the league is played. It's the same way in basketball, rampant, illegal molestation by all big bodies. They say that they can call holding on every play, and on any passing down, there is some egregious rule breaking going on at one of the spots almost every time. I have no idea how the refs decide when to stop ignoring it.
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It seems most often they stop ignoring it or sometimes seem to make up a call out of think air when one team is just about blow out another. Pop a 50 yard run to go up 21 in the first half? Well we're calling holding this play even if if was the receiver on the other side of the field that had no bearing on the play and was a ticky tack hold anyways..
 
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dragurd said:
It seems most often they stop ignoring it or sometimes seem to make up a call out of think air when one team is just about blow out another. Pop a 50 yard run to go up 21 in the first half? Well we're calling holding this play even if if was the receiver on the other side of the field that had no bearing on the play and was a ticky tack hold anyways..
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No one here thinks B1G refs are the standard bearers for their profession. Wisconsin hasn't been called for holding against tOSU since I was shitting fun meals. It's frustrating for sure.

But it's not a conspiracy. At all. Right?
 
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jwinslow said:
First of all, thanks for stopping by and hopefully you can stick around, though as a pseudo rival it might get a bit chippy in here :) You've been a quality contributor so farGamble was raped. TWICE. on a late third down to ice the game against Miami. He also caught the ball in bounds. None of those three things were called properly, so OSU had to punt. AJ Hawk was blatantly clipped as he slowed right in front of the punt returner ,springing their anemic offense for 20+ yds and the game tying FG. Then OT began and the flag occurred.

Stuff happens. The reason other PSU fans draw such a reputation is because of the wild conspiracies spouted on their message boards, and how jealousy drives the man to keep PSU down. That's how the league is played. It's the same way in basketball, rampant, illegal molestation by all big bodies. They say that they can call holding on every play, and on any passing down, there is some egregious rule breaking going on at one of the spots almost every time. I have no idea how the refs decide when to stop ignoring it.
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Chippy is fine.. I'm not here to offend anyone and I don't get offended easily. I'll take pseudo rival as a compliment. IF Gamble doesn't get that call in OT, you have a handful of bad or missed calls that cost you a national championship. You might carry that with you for a few years if not forever and bad calls down the line might get under your skin a little more. I get some loudmouths bring out outlandish calls of bias.. I guess I just expect some level of competence. When your games are on national tv every week often at night with a million camera angles, you'd expect them to at least get an easy review right. If you have the best conference or close to the best conference in the country, wouldn't you want the best officials? And since the midwest is known for their offensive linemen production, don't you think they'd be able to find officials that would know how to officiate them? Hands to the face has been called plenty since it became a point of emphasis.

Just a brief comment on the fashion argument.. I think the black will look great, but I'd love if we could arrange to play each other every year in our home colors. You in your traditional scarlet and us in our navy blue.
 
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cincibuck said:
In fact, Ohio State did come out with a reverse on the current helmet. In 1967 they went from a pearl gray helmet with a thick rubber pad down the middle covered with scarlet vinyl to a scarlet helmet with a gray stripe outlined in black and white. The next year, a national championship year, they donned the current helmet.

As I've stated before, I would have no objection whatsoever if the Buckeyes wore a genuine throw back uniform - go all Chic Harley on 'em in a gray shirt with vertical scarlet stripes on the front and numbers on the back only, a brown helmet and dark khaki pants with scarlet stockings. Or go out in Les Horvath togs - scarlet pants and helmet and a white jersey with scarlet numbers in that old advertising font. Do it and be authentic and I'll love it.

It would be something done for a reason beyond the crass desire to make money for Uncle Phil - to honor the school's proud athletic history.

Instead, Nike has given us half-assed throw back jerseys and uniforms with little regard for the history, and now for the colors, of the school.
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Well, I was assuming that had never been done before, but apparently I should have looked it up first.
 
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