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Tim Beck (HC Coastal Carolina)

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He didn't just change Withers, he changed the players. I think that made a bigger difference. The roster talent just wasn't there in '11-'13, for a variety of reasons. Vonn Bell should have played earlier, and that is on Urban.
 
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Honestly this felt like a lazy hire from the beginning. He's Warinners guy and maybe to keep Warinner happy as co-OC he wanted his buddy. I don't know if Beck is the real problem or the combo of Beck and Warinner calling plays but Urban at Florida would have taken over the offense fully, but now he's in full CEO mode meaning he's not going to dive into the weeds to fix it, he'll make suggestions or make structural changes (i.e. Having Beck call the plays, or Warinner to the boot) but he's not going to call the plays.
 
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AuTX Buckeye said:
Honestly this felt like a lazy hire from the beginning. He's Warinners guy and maybe to keep Warinner happy as co-OC he wanted his buddy. I don't know if Beck is the real problem or the combo of Beck and Warinner calling plays but Urban at Florida would have taken over the offense fully, but now he's in full CEO mode meaning he's not going to dive into the weeds to fix it, he'll make suggestions or make structural changes (i.e. Having Beck call the plays, or Warinner to the boot) but he's not going to call the plays.
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Getting on the headset and saying "RUN ZEKE" or "PASS THE FUCKING BALL" isn't play calling. Play calling is calling every specific play. Urban could have, and should have, done the former in asking a single question to Beck and/or warriner: "what the fuck are you doing?"
 
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Dryden said:
He didn't just change Withers, he changed the players. I think that made a bigger difference. The roster talent just wasn't there in '11-'13, for a variety of reasons. Vonn Bell should have played earlier, and that is on Urban.
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I don't think Withers' problem was with his position group.
Rather it's the scheme and rebuilding talent that made it terrible. I'm not even sure what to call the scheme, because it seems like it changed on a weekly basis. There was a lot of miscommunication.
Even so, Withers looks like a pretty decent coach -- just not a good fit for what we were trying to do. He's having success as a HC in FCS... Beck needs to work on going back to a good position coach.
 
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Honest question.

If Tim Beck is retained, and the offense, despite replacing most of the OL, a Heisman caliber RB, and most of the production from the WR position and playing what appears to be a far stronger schedule...what happens if Beck calls the plays and we put up 40 a game? Will Urban get the credit for putting him in check, or will this be a Herman 2.0 where everyone who called for his head turning into the same ones talking about him taking a HC position and hopefully one day returning to tOSU to replace Urban?
 
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I've never called for Hermans head. And I don't think it's likely he's coming here. In 5 years, Herman could be in the same spot as Dantonio now... some people hate him, some people still respect him...
Right now Tim Beck is just a position coach... so theoretically we could keep him. But I have doubts about his competency in that role as well.
I wouldn't hold my breathe either way. He's more Tim Beckman than Herman.
 
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BUCKYLE said:
Honest question.

If Tim Beck is retained, and the offense, despite replacing most of the OL, a Heisman caliber RB, and most of the production from the WR position and playing what appears to be a far stronger schedule...what happens if Beck calls the plays and we put up 40 a game? Will Urban get the credit for putting him in check, or will this be a Herman 2.0 where everyone who called for his head turning into the same ones talking about him taking a HC position and hopefully one day returning to tOSU to replace Urban?
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That depends on if Warinner is still in the booth babysitting Beck. It seems like that was the change that made a big difference in the final two games of the season.

If you can't do your job (sit in the booth and call plays) without being babysat (the shots of Warinner and Beck sitting side by side were remarkable) and taking away from someone else doing their job, you need to go.

I didn't read through your entire exchange but the parallel to the Withers situation is striking, IMO.

Fickell/Warinner on the sideline, Withers/Beck in the booth and an incoherent mess on the field on defense/offense in 2013/2015.

They brought Ash in and things instantly improved drastically. It seems like bringing in a replacement for Beck is the obvious solution here as well.

That's not to say Ash was perfect, just like Herman wasn't perfect- people questioned some of their calls or all of their callsand a certain segment of the fan base always will.

I think Herman should have given the ball to Hyde more in the second half of the B1G championship game- particularly on third and short and fourth and short.

However, for the most part the offense was a well oiled machine under Herman outside of a few specific examples.

The exact opposite is the case with Beck. It's not like MSU was an isolated incident. The offense sputtered, stumbled and looked mostly incoherent the entire season. It didn't look like they had a plan ever (they went back to the Bollman era just pull plays out of a hat strategy) and they certainly had no clue how to utilize their talent.

If Beck comes back and they look amazing next season Meyer should get credit for identifying a year long problem and fixing it.

Considering he's a great coach who wasn't able to do that this season before essentially replacing Beck in the booth with Warinner, that seems unlikely.

Like I said, I don't know how you can watch Warinner sitting next to Beck in the booth and not come to the conclusion that the team would be much better off with another coach who is capable of doing their job without someone else doing it for them.

We'll see what happens.
 
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Put yourself in Urban Meyer's position. You assemble a coaching team and assign responsibilities. You believe that a recent hire could be excellent in the role, but that he needs a bit more time to settle in and learn the offense and player capabilities. Behind this, you have a quarterback controversy going in the locker room and ongoing recruiting relationships. You have legal responsibilities to let a man do his job and give him the resources to do it.

As you watch, every direct competency under his control is regressing, especially the quarterback role that is supposed to be one of the deepest in the history of college football. Eventually, when the team loses to a team that they should have beaten by three touchdowns, it all comes out. You still have to keep the lid on. The factions in the locker room become a bit more apparent. Resentment of Coach Beck is palpable, not only because of fan discontent, but because of player discontent. Not one offensive player speaks out his behalf. Not one positive word comes from the team. In fact, the simmering discontent with his coaching boils over the top and a Heisman candidate speaks out. After future games, no one speaks of coach Beck from the team.

Now, contrast this with Herman or Fickell. Herman did raise some question marks early on, but there was positive feedback from the team. This negative cloud did not exist. Fickell was recognized for taking over a team in a crisis when Tressel made his unplanned departure. He was a good somebody in his role that was not yet ready to take on this responsibility but did so because he loved this University.

I see no parallel. The facts are on display. Lack of support from the team. Regression in the play of every function that is his direct responsibility. And here is my fear. In his tendency to err on the side of being a good somebody, Urban Meyer puts his own health and his tenure at Ohio State in jeopardy by holding onto this guy.

If Urban Meyer is smart, he will avoid that tendency and take the steps that he needs to take right now to protect himself and the team.
 
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Steve19 said:
Put yourself in Urban Meyer's position. You assemble a coaching team and assign responsibilities. You believe that a recent hire could be excellent in the role, but that he needs a bit more time to settle in and learn the offense and player capabilities.
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I think the more likely scenario is that Meyer promoted Warinner to replace Herman and gave him the leeway to bring in his guy.

Warinner proceeded to bring in his old friend who he coached with at Kansas, which might have been necessary to keep Warinner around after he was looking for HC gigs all offseason.

Bottom line, I think Beck was a Warinner move that Meyer allowed to keep him happy.
 
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Given that we don't have a committed QB for the '16 season, I don't see how Beck can go anywhere before signing day if we are sending him out into homes to meet with QB prospects and given the backlash (right or wrong) with the Stan Drayton mess last year I don't see him leaving just after signing day. If we miss on QB's in '16, Danny Clark dgaf who his QBs coach is, I could see a change coming.

Barring something crazy he's back next year with his job on the line.
 
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Being someone who was critical of Fickell in 2013, I'll jump in.

Just because the coordinator is getting results now doesn't mean people were wrong for being critical in the past. Is it crazy to say maybe it was a learning experience from poor play calling? Maybe a new assistant coach or even Urban shed some light on the situation and adjustments were made? Or maybe it's simply new players coming in or returning players getting better? It could be a combination of any of that.

I remember in either the Sparty or Clemson game that year as their offense was inside our 10 yard line, seemingly a Cover 2 package was called. To me, that far backed up, you have to call Man-to-Man. Cover 2 simply leaves far too many open areas for a completion (which will be a TD inside the 10). Roby caught a lot of flack that year and I kept thinking it was the scheme. He seems to be doing quite well in the NFL. Maybe the best CB out of the 2014 draft class so far?

I would prefer to see Beck gone, but if he stays I certainly hope he fixes things. I'd hope this season (and being babysat the final 2 games) is a big learning experience. I'm certain words will be said that things need to be fixed. So if in 2016 Beck does what Herman did in 2014, it doesn't mean we're wrong for being critical of Beck's play calling in the Sparty game from this season.
 
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