The Wine Thread

[MaxBuck]

Hmm... I'm drinking Syrah right now.

Try this one. It is fucking awsome.

 

[AKAK]

Try this one. It is fucking awsome.

I've bought exactly 4 bottles of wine this year. (Maybe 5, can't remember)

Yet, somehow I've drank... well... probably more than a hundred.

 

[Gatorubet]

I've bought exactly 4 bottles of wine this year. (Maybe 5, can't remember)

Yet, somehow I've drank... well... probably more than a hundred.

Inventory control is always a problem. :p

 

[AKAK]

Inventory control is always a problem. :p

Its June already.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I've bought exactly 4 bottles of wine this year. (Maybe 5, can't remember)

Yet, somehow I've drank... well... probably more than a hundred.

Explain, please.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Yeah, it's kind of a bummer that Montrachet is so pricey.

I don't have brands off the top of my head, but, unoaked Chardonnay is getting pretty popular... at least to the point that you should be able to find it in a decent wine store or large grocery. IIRC, if you can find some Dry Creek Valley (Sonoma), stylistically it's probably pretty close to what you're looking for--even without the oak. And likely has not gone through an intentional malolactic fermentation (which causes the buttery flavor/fatty mouthfeel).

Try DeSante Wines from Napa. They're not cheap (25-35) for the whites, but priced cheaper than top Burgundy or Chablis vineyards. They have a complete French sensibility and balance. The Chardonnay is the closest thing that I've had to Premier or Grand Cru Chablis other than the real article. Very small production, so they may not be distributed in Ohio.

 

[AKAK]

Explain, please.

I'm a thief?

Try DeSante Wines from Napa. They're not cheap (25-35) for the whites, but priced cheaper than top Burgundy or Chablis vineyards. They have a complete French sensibility and balance. The Chardonnay is the closest thing that I've had to Premier or Grand Cru Chablis other than the real article. Very small production, so they may not be distributed in Ohio.

Or Chile... just generally...

But, I'll keep an eye out to theif some DeSante.

 

[knapplc]

EDIT

This was me being stupid. Nevermind.

 

[Crump's brother]

Had a glass of Spanish Quarter cab/tempranillo last night. It went well with my smoked chicken salad and Vermont cheddar bread.

Chicken salad contains: 1 whole chicken,mayo/sour cream,bacon,sun-dried tomatoes, and a green pepper. Salt and pepper to taste.

I'm still stuffed and groggy.

 

[cincibuck]

I bought a case of a Spanish Red, El Fuego(???), about 3 years ago. Recommended on splendid table as one of those "sells for 10, but tastes like $25," pitches. Came in a flashy bottle with flames running up the side of the label -- the kind of label you usually avoid -- It was one of those where the vineyard was grafting new grapes onto old roots. I was able to find it at less than $10 a bottle in KY and I'm wondering, given the shaky status of the Euro, if the price and remained the same. It was a great buy at $10.

 

[calibuck]

Hey, ORD,
tell me of some malolactic fermented Chards that are out there? I cannot seem to find any, as it takes too long (wineries are not laying down the oak, but selling as quick as possible). I prefer the 'big' chards, and especially the big buttery chards.

We mainly drink the reds, Zins specifically, and have quite a few to choose from. (Did over the Cabs, specifically for the price), and grew to like them. Like to have a 'big' gnarly Zin, that 'crunches'. Never mind the cherry or cassis flavors, want the big alcohol, and the pop of the tannins.

For strictly unwinding purposes, drink "Two-Buck Chuck" aka Charles Shaw. It retails for $1.99 a bottle, less than $24 per case. I know, showing my lack of sophistication, but simply refuse to quaff a $30 dollar bottle of wine because had a hard day. On the pool deck for a Saturday early evening cocktail hour, cannot beat, and if any come visit, we'll 'put out the dog' and serve something a bit better......

:gobucks3::gobucks4:

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Hey, ORD,
tell me of some malolactic fermented Chards that are out there? I cannot seem to find any, as it takes too long (wineries are not laying down the oak, but selling as quick as possible). I prefer the 'big' chards, and especially the big buttery chards.

Not sure I can be of much help. With a few exceptions (Desante, Chanin, Au Bon Climat) all of whom are going to start at around $30, I pretty much avoid California chardonnay in favor of Burgundy.

Most California chard will go through malo. If they inoculate for it, it's usually done pretty quickly after the sugar fermentation. The problem is that you're not really going to get the full Burgundian treatment (low yields, barrel fermentation, malo in barrel, extended lees contact etc) for under $30. Prime vineyard land and French barrels just make that cost prohibitive. Most of the cheaper stuff going for that profile has the hell manipulated out of it up to and sometimes including any combination of oak "chips" and flavor enzymes to get the flavor profile that they're looking for. Same thing out of Australia.

Two buck chuck is really not all that bad. It's decent, honest wine that's not being manipulated into trying to appear as something more expensive. Plus, (due to fairly low alcohol, decent acidity and little to no oak) it makes great wine to cook with--and I mean that in a positive way, not as a slam.

 

[AKAK]

Most California chard will go through malo. If they inoculate for it, it's usually done pretty quickly after the sugar fermentation. The problem is that you're not really going to get the full Burgundian treatment (low yields, barrel fermentation, malo in barrel, extended lees contact etc) for under $30. Prime vineyard land and French barrels just make that cost prohibitive. Most of the cheaper stuff going for that profile has the hell manipulated out of it up to and sometimes including any combination of oak "chips" and flavor enzymes to get the flavor profile that they're looking for. Same thing out of Australia.

Just to add to this... and ORD's right on point here... is that just because a wine is Malo'd... doesn't mean it's what you're looking for. There, like yeast, are many kinds of Malolactic cultures. Not all of which yield "buttery" flavors. The compound produced by the Malolactic fermentation is caused by a compound called diacetyl... and all MLF cultures don't produce this, or in large quantity or, for a variety of other reasons, it's not as pronounced, in Red wines, it's more difficult to detect, or there's not a lot of Malic acid to convert (Malolactic fermentation primarily is the conversion of Malic acid to lactic acid... which usually changes the ph and softens the wine)

ORD, just for a point about Burgundies, and I don't know this for a fact, but, I'd guess MLF is less prounounced in high end burgundies because of the very low ph in those wines (which is part of the reason they can be aged better than most dry whites)

I guess, long story short is that if you're looking for "Buttery" chards, to google or ask around for them. MLF may or may not be the answer.

Finally, whether innoculated on purpose or not, most wines made the old school way do undergo a malolactic fermentation naturally... (Unless the alcohol is too high, the ph is too acidic or preservatives added early in the process.) And in France... well.. in the old houses, they tend to make wine around their natural flora for their particular wine making process, instead of what you might do in Cali, or elsewhere, where you're going to plan the mircrobes around the wine. (Not saying one is better than the other)

Yeah, and too much Oak additives these days, be they chips, cubes, spirals, dust, staves or other things. Its just fake ageing.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

ORD, just for a point about Burgundies, and I don't know this for a fact, but, I'd guess MLF is less prounounced in high end burgundies because of the very low ph in those wines (which is part of the reason they can be aged better than most dry whites)

You're right. It gets back to the French concept of "terroir" or the manner in which a particular plot of land expresses itself in the final product. With regards to Burgs, you're dealing with two primary factors as opposed to even the best California sites: cooler climates and heavily limestone based soils.

That's going to lead to the grapes hitting the cellar at lower Ph/higher acidity. In addition to changing malic acid (think of a green apple) into lactic acid (the acid in milk), ML fermentation (actually a bacterial reaction rather than a technical fermentation) vents off a third of the total acid in the form of CO2. If your grapes are coming in with more acid, there will be more left in the final wine.

While it's a popular taste profile (although the pendulum seems to be swinging back), with Napa's warmer climate and fertile volcanic soils, it leads to big, overblown, buttery Chardonnays that aren't terribly good with food and tend to crack up within a couple of years in bottle.

The producers that I mentioned above are some very notable exceptions. Au Bon Climate is a long established winery that always swam against the tide regarding Chardonnay production. Chanin is a young guy who's being mentored by Jim at ABC. Desante is another new grower in Napa working with some old 40 year old Chardonnay vines and making the most Burgundian Chardonnay that I've had out of California.

 

[AKAK]

Everybody else keeping up?