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sandgk
Watson, Crick & A Twist
Thought came to me re-watching this yesterday very early in the morning.
At the point in the documentary when the TSUN alum opines that Ohio State has never been able to put up a leak-proof fence around Ohio - the thought came to me, is that less true going forward than in the past? (Especially when one considers the scholarship limits mean that Tressel cannot stockpile talent, keeping gifted players out of other team's clutches.)
Look over the Buckeye State schooled players on their roster today - think of who is coming in, think of who may be exiting stage left hoping to make green on Sundays.
Definitely Coming Back - 3 Players:
On Special Teams Mesko and Kicker Bryan Wright are definitely coming back. Still think it is a shame that Wright could not be offered. Though, the lack of such an offer for Wright is part of a critical trend. Flat out fewer players are being lost head-to-head with TSUN.
Also returning is legacy O-lineman Boren. True he was offered head-to-head, but we all knew where Boren was likely headed, and the tOSU staff made this a tough choice. (Which arguably would not have been the case in years gone by).
Definitely Departing
Leo LB Shawn Crable - hope you enjoyed that 0-4 run Shawn.
Possible Departures:
WR Manningham - who was a head-to-head loss versus tOSU, but I think this trend is changing.
TE Mike Massey - he is a true Junior, but is he less likely to leave than Manningham? This TE was also offered by OSU, a family divided with members playing in the past at Ohio State and TSUN. (Pat Massey was at TSUN at the time of recruitment).
Most Likely Staying
CB Brandon Harrison - also an academic Junior, and arguably not a loss in recruiting considering the Ohio State class reeled in Jenkins and JamO that same year, plus the then WR prospect Donald Worthington. Plus, TSUN was Harrison's 2nd choice - after he decommited from ND.
Incoming Border Crossers:
TE Kevin Koger - The Only one of these 3 who carried an OSU Offer. Head-to-head win for TSUN in the recruiting department.
TE Brandon Moore - no doubting his talent, but OSU never offered - you cannot call this a loss when the tOSU staff saw better prospects elsewhere.
OT Elliott Mealer - tOSU never offered. Mealer opted for TSUN a day or so after he failed to snag an offer around his visit to the Spring Game. Perhaps he saw a certain Block "O" practicing their OHIO cheer?
So, this year - TSUN has 6 significant border crossing contributors on their depth chart. (Can't really count Wright at this time, K. C. Lopata being their present go-to guy for kicking).
Next year TSUN could have as few as 3 returning border crossers.
They will add 3 more to that total, of whom only one was a TSUN-tOSU contested recruit.
The maximum likely border crossing head count is 9 - if none of Manningham, Massey or Harrison depart, and all the incoming recruits hold firm in the face of a possible (likely) exit from Carr.
Besides which, here is a great perspective question. Given the alternatives slotted in by the staff at the respective positions is there anyone, other than Manningham or Boren, that you would contemplate taking over their current equivalent at Ohio State?
I thought not.
Of the incoming recruits who except Koger is a loss in a head-to-head battle? (Rhetorical question really).
A good fence is in place in my view. tOSU is losing fewer important recruits to TSUN straight up, and they are keeping more often exactly those they want and can keep in state, in Scarlet and Gray.
Days like yesterday can only help shore things up for the good guys.
:osu:
At the point in the documentary when the TSUN alum opines that Ohio State has never been able to put up a leak-proof fence around Ohio - the thought came to me, is that less true going forward than in the past? (Especially when one considers the scholarship limits mean that Tressel cannot stockpile talent, keeping gifted players out of other team's clutches.)
Look over the Buckeye State schooled players on their roster today - think of who is coming in, think of who may be exiting stage left hoping to make green on Sundays.
Definitely Coming Back - 3 Players:
On Special Teams Mesko and Kicker Bryan Wright are definitely coming back. Still think it is a shame that Wright could not be offered. Though, the lack of such an offer for Wright is part of a critical trend. Flat out fewer players are being lost head-to-head with TSUN.
Also returning is legacy O-lineman Boren. True he was offered head-to-head, but we all knew where Boren was likely headed, and the tOSU staff made this a tough choice. (Which arguably would not have been the case in years gone by).
Definitely Departing
Leo LB Shawn Crable - hope you enjoyed that 0-4 run Shawn.
Possible Departures:
WR Manningham - who was a head-to-head loss versus tOSU, but I think this trend is changing.
TE Mike Massey - he is a true Junior, but is he less likely to leave than Manningham? This TE was also offered by OSU, a family divided with members playing in the past at Ohio State and TSUN. (Pat Massey was at TSUN at the time of recruitment).
Most Likely Staying
CB Brandon Harrison - also an academic Junior, and arguably not a loss in recruiting considering the Ohio State class reeled in Jenkins and JamO that same year, plus the then WR prospect Donald Worthington. Plus, TSUN was Harrison's 2nd choice - after he decommited from ND.
Incoming Border Crossers:
TE Kevin Koger - The Only one of these 3 who carried an OSU Offer. Head-to-head win for TSUN in the recruiting department.
TE Brandon Moore - no doubting his talent, but OSU never offered - you cannot call this a loss when the tOSU staff saw better prospects elsewhere.
OT Elliott Mealer - tOSU never offered. Mealer opted for TSUN a day or so after he failed to snag an offer around his visit to the Spring Game. Perhaps he saw a certain Block "O" practicing their OHIO cheer?
So, this year - TSUN has 6 significant border crossing contributors on their depth chart. (Can't really count Wright at this time, K. C. Lopata being their present go-to guy for kicking).
Next year TSUN could have as few as 3 returning border crossers.
They will add 3 more to that total, of whom only one was a TSUN-tOSU contested recruit.
The maximum likely border crossing head count is 9 - if none of Manningham, Massey or Harrison depart, and all the incoming recruits hold firm in the face of a possible (likely) exit from Carr.
Besides which, here is a great perspective question. Given the alternatives slotted in by the staff at the respective positions is there anyone, other than Manningham or Boren, that you would contemplate taking over their current equivalent at Ohio State?
I thought not.
Of the incoming recruits who except Koger is a loss in a head-to-head battle? (Rhetorical question really).
A good fence is in place in my view. tOSU is losing fewer important recruits to TSUN straight up, and they are keeping more often exactly those they want and can keep in state, in Scarlet and Gray.
Days like yesterday can only help shore things up for the good guys.
:osu:
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Good post Sandgk.
I also think having the Sparty war machine come to life in their own backyard is going to hurt tsun in Ohio recruiting. Thats about as midly as I can put it. The new coach is going to have a Tressel clone in EL giving him fits that Carr never had to worry about.
I also think having the Sparty war machine come to life in their own backyard is going to hurt tsun in Ohio recruiting. Thats about as midly as I can put it. The new coach is going to have a Tressel clone in EL giving him fits that Carr never had to worry about.
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lvbuckeye;996636; said:
I saw it in my hotel in Phoenix and found it to be very emotional. When the guy said, it is our culture, I also cried. I don't know how many times over the years I have told my South African wife, "You have your culture, I have mine and this is my culture."
I then had to return to an evening session of my conference and someone asked about my eyes. "Bloody desert dust!"
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OCBuckWife
I am the evil monkey in your closet
CCI;999216; said:
patel.748;996390; said:
Can't download it CCI?
Unfortunately, I DON'T have to way to burn it from TiVO to cd.
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Jaxbuck;999175; said:
I wonder if JT will pull a variation of the stuff Woody did to Michigan in recruiting, in that if he couldn't get a recruit to come to Columbus he'd steer them to Notre Dame to keep Michigan from getting them, but in this case if he saw a recruit tha he wanted and might not get and that recruit also had interest in MSU and scUM, that JT would steer him to MSU...
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lvbuckeye;999443; said:
That's obvious and I knew that would come up. Even though MSU is in conference we don't play them every year, and even with Dantonio up there MSU will never reach Michigan's talent level even with our help in stirring a recruit or two there to keep them out of Michigan's hands. I'm not suggesting JT do it to the level Woody did for Notre Dame (he streered nearly every top notch recruit he could to Notre Dame to keep them from going to Michigan), but if a top prospect were narrowing things down between the three schools, I wouldn't mind seeing JT talk up MSU and Dantonio in case the kid didn't pick Ohio State.
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NW_Buckeye
Rookie
Absolutely loved the documentary. As an Ohio native and son of a OSU alum I have always been an avid fan of OSU football, even though I moved to Washington when I was just a kid. I have always closely followed the Buckeyes, through the good and (too many) bad years, but few people understand why I consider myself a Buckeye when I spent most of my life in WA state. This documentary says it all - "Ohio is a football state".
I had a dog named Buckeye and worshiped Woody and Buckeye football, even though the OSU vs. UM game was often the only game carried out here on the left coast. People talk about the "Apple Cup" UW vs. WSU (my alma mater) as a fierce rivalry - ha!
My father made a tape for me and has already watched the film a dozen or more times. He learned a lot - he couldn't believe the "snow bowl". He was a foreign exchange student on a farm in Ohio - and he remembers the blizzard, but couldn't believe that a football game was going on!
The best thing about "The Rivalry" is that I get a glimse of why I have such strong loyalty to the Buckeyes. It's not because OSU is the necessarily the best, but because its so much more than just football. I had my wife watch it, and it gives her an understanding of why I care so much about the Buckeyes. Excellent job HBO!
I had a dog named Buckeye and worshiped Woody and Buckeye football, even though the OSU vs. UM game was often the only game carried out here on the left coast. People talk about the "Apple Cup" UW vs. WSU (my alma mater) as a fierce rivalry - ha!
My father made a tape for me and has already watched the film a dozen or more times. He learned a lot - he couldn't believe the "snow bowl". He was a foreign exchange student on a farm in Ohio - and he remembers the blizzard, but couldn't believe that a football game was going on!
The best thing about "The Rivalry" is that I get a glimse of why I have such strong loyalty to the Buckeyes. It's not because OSU is the necessarily the best, but because its so much more than just football. I had my wife watch it, and it gives her an understanding of why I care so much about the Buckeyes. Excellent job HBO!
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Big Papa
Urban!!!!
I am with others here who admit they got choked up during the Documentary. I really think part of what sets this rivalry apart from any other and makes it the best is the Woody/Bo factor. The history they had, the undying desire to beat the other, the history they had with each other and the love and respect they shared for one another at the same time, made this more than just a rivalry, it was life for them.
I definitely learned some things and loved watching the old footage of guys like Vic and Hoopalong. I will definitely watch it again.
CCI, I will burn it to DVD and get your addy to mail it to you.
I definitely learned some things and loved watching the old footage of guys like Vic and Hoopalong. I will definitely watch it again.
CCI, I will burn it to DVD and get your addy to mail it to you.
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MililaniBuckeye;999254; said:
I don't know about that but its certainly plausible. I was thinking more along the lines of Dantonio's inroads to Ohio recruiting and MSU's special ed program that can get in a lot of non qualifiers. I see MSU taking the lions share of the Ohio kids that normally go to tsun and other B10 schools but JT is still going to pretty much get who he wants out of Ohio every year. Direct competition for recruits is a zero sum game, everyone MSU gets is one they take away from tsun.
Imo MSU has been a sleeping giant for a long time, I was not happy to see Dantonio get that job.
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