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The "Can't Sell It" Rule Should Be Changed

MaxBuck

SoCal, Baby!
In the wake of the disappointing revelations about 5 Buckeye players, I think it's important to revisit the rule wherein ownership of certain property is in limbo for student-athletes between the time they receive it and the time their eligibility is exhausted. Obviously, had Pryor, Herron and Posey waited until after the final game of their senior seasons, they could have entered into the transactions that led to their suspensions without penalty. It was the fact they sold these items while still eligible that led to the problems for them. These same guys also could have sold toasters, calculators, old clothes (but not football clothes!), etc. without penalty. Say whatever else you like, but the logic of this is somewhat tortured, so much so that it's not surprising that young student-athletes may be confused by it.

Moreover, there is truth in the statement that Terrelle Pryor is, in many ways, helping to pay for the education of Samantha Prahalis, rifle-team members, synchronized swimmers, and other non-revenue-sport athletes. And perhaps more significantly, to pay for Jim Tressel's magnificent Upper Arlington home and Gene Smith's Mercedes. I don't begrudge Smith or Tressel their benefits; they have earned them via the free market. What troubles me is that Smith and Tressel are offered the chance to reap market-based revenues in a way that Pryor is prevented from doing.

I've posted elsewhere why I think paying football players a stipend is wrong. But I see no reason why Pryor, Herron et al should be prevented from selling their autographs, memorabilia, and other fungible symbols of their athletic excellence while they are active players. To those who say that this would impair amateurism, I simply ask this: were amateur athletes who participated in Olympiads during the amateur era prevented from selling their medals, or from selling autographs? No. Today, of course, true amateurism is pretty much limited to two groups: those who aren't good enough to get anyone to pay them, and US collegians.

This is a pure market-based solution to this NCAA problem. It allows the most-marketable athletes (like Pryor) to realize the greatest value, which is the nature of the market. And it eliminates the hypocrisy wherein coaches and administrators reap market benefits while athletes are prevented from doing so.

Many say this will allow too much access to "boosters." I disagree. Boosters will always have access to athletes for a variety of reasons - and the athletic departments get the benefits (so that Tressel and Smith can draw their high salaries). This won't change the access, it will simply allow athletes to realize more of the benefits their celebrity entitles them to.

Finally, although collegiate athletes can and often do sell autographs and memorabilia after their careers are over, the value of such items is by that time diminished; sale prices would be much higher were the athletes able to sell them while still active as collegians. Why does the NCAA believe it is in the interest of the student-athlete to force them to dispose of assets only after the value of such assets drops? It's inconsistent with their claimed interest in the welfare of those students.

Your comments are welcome!
 
I suspect someday these boys will regret cashing in their awards for some quick cash and a tattoo. They'll look back and feel foolish about it, so I don't agree that we should change the rules to encourage it.
 
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MaxBuck;1839935; said:
In the wake of the disappointing revelations about 5 Buckeye players, I think it's important to revisit the rule wherein ownership of certain property is in limbo for student-athletes between the time they receive it and the time their eligibility is exhausted. Obviously, had Pryor, Herron and Posey waited until after the final game of their senior seasons, they could have entered into the transactions that led to their suspensions without penalty. It was the fact they sold these items while still eligible that led to the problems for them. These same guys also could have sold toasters, calculators, old clothes (but not football clothes!), etc. without penalty. Say whatever else you like, but the logic of this is somewhat tortured, so much so that it's not surprising that young student-athletes may be confused by it.

Moreover, there is truth in the statement that Terrelle Pryor is, in many ways, helping to pay for the education of Samantha Prahalis, rifle-team members, synchronized swimmers, and other non-revenue-sport athletes. And perhaps more significantly, to pay for Jim Tressel's magnificent Upper Arlington home and Gene Smith's Mercedes. I don't begrudge Smith or Tressel their benefits; they have earned them via the free market. What troubles me is that Smith and Tressel are offered the chance to reap market-based revenues in a way that Pryor is prevented from doing.

I've posted elsewhere why I think paying football players a stipend is wrong. But I see no reason why Pryor, Herron et al should be prevented from selling their autographs, memorabilia, and other fungible symbols of their athletic excellence while they are active players. To those who say that this would impair amateurism, I simply ask this: were amateur athletes who participated in Olympiads during the amateur era prevented from selling their medals, or from selling autographs? No. Today, of course, true amateurism is pretty much limited to two groups: those who aren't good enough to get anyone to pay them, and US collegians.

This is a pure market-based solution to this NCAA problem. It allows the most-marketable athletes (like Pryor) to realize the greatest value, which is the nature of the market. And it eliminates the hypocrisy wherein coaches and administrators reap market benefits while athletes are prevented from doing so.

Many say this will allow too much access to "boosters." I disagree. Boosters will always have access to athletes for a variety of reasons - and the athletic departments get the benefits (so that Tressel and Smith can draw their high salaries). This won't change the access, it will simply allow athletes to realize more of the benefits their celebrity entitles them to.

Finally, although collegiate athletes can and often do sell autographs and memorabilia after their careers are over, the value of such items is by that time diminished; sale prices would be much higher were the athletes able to sell them while still active as collegians. Why does the NCAA believe it is in the interest of the student-athlete to force them to dispose of assets only after the value of such assets drops? It's inconsistent with their claimed interest in the welfare of those students.

Your comments are welcome!
An interesting solution, and well-presented. In a fundamental way, it is unfair that "the market" controls most aspects of college athletics, but that the players are prohibited from entering the market that they largely create.

Just understand that your system, like any other, can and would be abused. While many schools would continue to act with some integrity, Bobby Lowder would be passing out "memorabilia" like a crack dealer on a playground, and all the Boss Hoggs down on the Plains would be buying that shit back from the players for thousands and thousands of dollars. Pretty soon you'd have no shred of amateurism left. Not that that's a bad thing, but are institutions of higher education the proper place to for "the market" to operate? Maybe it's time for a purely-for-profit, no-more-hypocrisy developmental league, as ORD has suggested.
 
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The rule is in place for a couple reasons I'd imagine.. the NCAA doesn't want its players to be paid, so allowing this opens all kinds of doors and gives teams/players all kinds of ways to get paid without breaking a rule. That's the issue. If you allow players to sell certain stuff like this, you're basically going to open the door for players to get paid. This rule would be the most abused rule ever.
 
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Systems_id;1839961; said:
So could the players theoretically sell a toaster for $200,000? Because that would be hilarious to watch the NCAA scream about that.

The NCAA clearly has a full team of economists hard at work determining the fair market value of all items bought and sold by every student athlete and their parents/close relatives. I'd be interested to see how it would have went down if they had given these items to their parents and they had sold them. What about any item that there parents buy or sell? Believe me despite the Cam Newton ruling..the NCAA rules outlaw the close relatives of players from receiving extra benefits just as much as they do for the athletes themselves.

Also it would be interesting to see if these players ever had the time to take jobs if they took jobs where they were tipped (say waiters). How does the NCAA monitor the type of thing? You don't think you might tip Terrelle Pryor slightly better then you would have otherwise if he were waiting on you (before we found out about him selling his gold pants of course :wink: ). Same thing goes for the parents of athletes (I'm sure we've certainly had players who have had parents in tipped professions).

The problem IS the rules..they are 50 years outdated..delusional, impossible to enforce. Sure the idea of amateurism is a good one without putting any thought into how practical it is. Kind of like how Communism with the idea of everyone working together and being equal was a great idea before you stopped to consider how REALITY actually works.
 
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LordJeffBuck;1839984; said:
... are institutions of higher education the proper place to for "the market" to operate?
Personally, I'd say yes - absolutely. If student-athletes were provided with a real-world education on market economics while still under the tutelage of caring college coaches (and most of these men truly are caring individuals with the best interest of their charges foremost in their minds), we might have fewer incidents of end-of-their-careers NFL players filing bankruptcy because they've run through their incomes faster then they made them. And collegiate stars who for whatever reason never make it as pros would have had the opportunity to salt some $$ away to help them complete their education and/or start their careers with a financial leg up.

Concerning the potential for abuse, I don't disagree that it exists. I also don't endorse a completely regulation-free system wherein players are empowered to sell anything at any time for any amount. Thought would need to go into how best to administer this approach to provide student-athletes the ability to realize their market value while not giving free rein to the Bobby Lowders of the world.
 
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MaxBuck;1839935; said:
I've posted elsewhere why I think paying football players a stipend is wrong. But I see no reason why Pryor, Herron et al should be prevented from selling their autographs, memorabilia, and other fungible symbols of their athletic excellence while they are active players. To those who say that this would impair amateurism, I simply ask this: were amateur athletes who participated in Olympiads during the amateur era prevented from selling their medals, or from selling autographs? No. Today, of course, true amateurism is pretty much limited to two groups: those who aren't good enough to get anyone to pay them, and US collegians.

I think LBJ made the argument pretty convincingly that if you allow this, you open up a huge loophole for the boosters inclined to drive a Mack truck through.

What's to stop a Bobby Lowder down in Alabama (or our own $500 handshake scumbag from Dayton) from setting up a system where players would make thousands of dollars a year selling jerseys and other program related trinkets. Universities that subsequently tried to prevent this would then be at a competitive disadvantage to schools that turned a blind eye to the practice or even encouraged it. Come to Ohio State, and you might make a couple of thousand selling your stuff on ebay. Go to Auburn, and the network of boosters will arrange to buy "something" from you to the tune of ten grand a month.
 
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There has to be rules for the kids to follow. Fair or unfair, it is what it is.

This seems to be a prevailing philosophy and makes the point I have been arguing for so long.

We have to have rules for the kids - even if they are UNFAIR.

Why is that?
 
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Oh8ch;1840075; said:
Why is that?

With this rule specifically, so teams aren't taking advantage of the system by setting up payments for things for absurd amounts of money. I'd rather have unfair rules than no rules at all in this case. Too many things would be out of control and I feel college football as a whole would be negatively affected without this particular rule. This rule makes sense. The punishment of it does not, and the NCAA needs to get its shit together and be consistent.
 
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