The BCS isn't the problem, it's Pre Season Polls

[txp135]

How about top 8 automatic gets in. Major conference Champs are in unless you're out of the top 12. 2nd team from each major conference is eligible to get in if they're ranked top 12 above a mid-major. Top 4 ranked teams get a first round bye (Only 1 team per conference is allowed a bye). This should only add a couple games to the season and no one should complain if they miss the cut. This means that even if Missouri beats OK, they would still miss the cut (but Big12 is still well represented). No rematches of teams that already played until it can't be avoided.

It would look like this assuming no upsets:

1) AL
2) OK
3) USC
4) PSU
5) Cinn vs 12) tOSU (Ohio supremacy)
6) ACC vs 10) TT(swapped with BSU because of TX)
7) TX vs 11) BSU
8) FLA vs 9) Utah (Urban's ex vs his bride)

Let's say 12, 10, 7, 8 makes it 2nd round should be:
1) AL vs 12) tOSU (tOSU settle score with Saban?)
2) OK vs 8) FLA (swapped with TT because of OK)
3) USC vs 10) TT (can USC grounds TT air attack?)
4) PSU vs 7) TX (Friends that are foes for a Saturday)

Semis should also coincides with the BCS bowls: Missouri if they are Big12 champ and did not get into the playoffs should get in and if ACC/B East champs are still ranked high enough to get in (the cut off should be top 16).

I'm sure there are still glitches to work out. There shouldn't be complaints even for the mid-majors this season. No undefeated team will be left out. No highly ranked teams with no shot to make the BCS bowl. And if BC/Cinn/mid-major make it to the BCS bowl, they've definitely earned it.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Sure... that's great... now... what do you do when Cincy get's Hot and wins the NC? You ready to call them the "best" team of 2008? Of course not. They're not even in the damn conversation, but your formulation gives them the opportunity. Fuck that.

 

[Buckeyefrankmp]

Sure... that's great... now... what do you do when Cincy get's Hot and wins the NC? You ready to call them the "best" team of 2008? Of course not. They're not even in the damn conversation, but your formulation gives them the opportunity. [censored] that.

They already got smoked by Oklahoma once. If you think they can run the gauntlet and beat Ohio State, USC and maybe Alabama, then they should be called national champs. In 1985 Georgetown beat Villanova in basketball twice only to lose to them in the Championship game. Who were the champs at the end of the tourney? Villanova.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

They already got smoked by Oklahoma once. If you think they can run the gauntlet and beat Ohio State, USC and maybe Alabama, then they should be called national champs. In 1985 Georgetown beat Villanova in basketball twice only to lose to them in the Championship game. Who were the champs at the end of the tourney? Villanova.

Didn't ask who the champ is.. I asked who the BEST TEAM is...

Glad you brought up Villanova... Villanova beat Georgetown 1 time in 4 tries in 1985. Georgetown 3-1... Nova 1-3.... But, add in some arbitrary time (March) and all of a sudden you're all starry eyed for Nova... I call bullshit. Upsets happen. Do you think Stanford 07 was a better team than USC 07? Sometimes results on the field DO NOT equal reality.

I want my champion to be the BEST team in the land... not the "hot team" during some arbitrary time. That's one of the things that's great about college football... we get the BEST... yes, we argue about it.. but that's also what's great about college football...

You playoff folks are [Edit: over the top, deleted] for trying to take it away from the game.

And, I should say, I used to be a play-off proponant... but... then I thought about what I was really asking for.

 

[Buckeyefrankmp]

Didn't ask who the champ is.. I asked who the BEST TEAM is...

Glad you brought up Villanova... Villanova beat Georgetown 1 time in 4 tries in 1985. Georgetown 3-1... Nova 1-3.... But, add in some arbitrary time (March) and all of a sudden you're all starry eyed for Nova... I call bull[censored]. Upsets happen. Do you think Stanford 07 was a better team than USC 07? Sometimes results on the field DO NOT equal reality.

I want my champion to be the BEST team in the land... not the "hot team" during some arbitrary time. That's one of the things that's great about college football... we get the BEST... yes, we argue about it.. but that's also what's great about college football...

You playoff folks are [Edit: over the top, deleted] for trying to take it away from the game.

And, I should say, I used to be a play-off proponant... but... then I thought about what I was really asking for.

Then we should call the 2006 Buckeyes the best team of 2006. We were the best team from August to November. Why did we even play that silly bowl game? Let's go back where we have four different organizations giving out National Championships. How could you arbitrarily differentiate between three or four one loss teams? The BSC was going to solve this and it is not.

In every sport you can point out where a "Wild Card" team wins the tournament and is called Champions. If you don't like that we could name two champions, a regular season champ and a tournament champ. Now how are you going to name the regular season champ?

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Make that 2-1... I guess they didn't get Nova in the BE tourney.... 1985...

Georgetown Big East champs including being over Nova...
Georgetown Big East tourney champs, a tourney that included Nova
Georgetown, won 2 of 3 contest with Nova

National champion? Villanova..

Makes perfect sense. Nothing illogical about it. Sure.. a playoff solves everything.

 

[cincibuck]

Here's a look at the AP preseason poll, end of season results (OK... some have 1 game remaining) and current rank (that is current rank in the AP).
Key:
Blue teams have fallen 10 or more spots or are no longer ranked
Red Teams have risen 10 or more spots
Black teams have stayed reasonably the same

AP Preseason

Rk..Team........Record...Rnk
1. Georgia........9-3....17
2. Ohio State....10-2....10
3. USC...........10-1.....5
4. Oklahoma......11-1.....4
5. Florida.......11-1 ....2
6. Missouri.......9-3....19
7. LSU............7-5....NR
8. West Virginia..7-4....NR
9. Clemson........7-5....NR
10. Auburn.........5-7....NR
11. Texas.........11-1.....3
12. Texas Tech....11-1.....8
13. Wisconsin......7-5....NR
14. Kansas.........7-5....NR
15. Arizona State..5-6....NR
16. Brigham Young.10-2....20
17. Virginia Tech..8-4....NR
18. Tennessee.....5- 7....NR
19. South Florida..7-4....NR
20. Illinois.......5-7....NR
21. Oregon.........9-3....16
22. Penn State....11-1 ....6
23. Wake Forest....7-5....NR
24. Alabama.......12-0.....1
25. Pittsburgh.....8-3....23

Consider that for a moment.... 14 teams began the season over ranked. That is 56% of the schools rated in the preseason top 25 were 10 or more spots over ranked. An astounding 11 of them aren't even ranked at all, 4 of which began the year top 10! 2 teams, Penn State and Alabama were surprises, and in fairness to pollsters, I think most of us will agree that going in to 2008 big things were not necessarily expected of either squad. That leaves us with 9 teams that lived up to preseason expectations, more or less - 4 of whom fell (Ohio State, Oregon, BYU and Pitt) and 4 of whom went up (USC, Florida, Texas, and Texas Tech) and 1 of whom remained the same (Oklahoma)

A very blunt tool.

How did the Coaches fair?

CoachesRk..Team........Record...Rnk
1. Georgia........9-3....19
2. USC...........10-1.....5
3. Ohio State....10-2....10
4. Oklahoma......11-1.....2
5. Florida.......11-1.....4
6. LSU............7-5....NR
7. Missouri.......9-3....17
8. West Virginia..7-4....NR
9. Clemson........7-5....NR
10. Texas.........11-1.....3
11. Auburn.........5-7....NR
12. Wisconsin......7-5....NR
13. Kansas.........7-5....NR
14. Texas Tech....11-1.....8
15. Virginia Tech..8-4....NR
16. Arizona State..5-6....NR
17. Brigham Young.10-2....18
18. Tennessee......5-7....NR
19. Illinois.......5-7....NR
20. Oregon.........9-3....14
21. South Florida..7-4....NR
22. Penn State....11-1.....6
23. Wake Forest....7-5....NR
24. Michigan.......3-9....NR
25. Fresno State...7-5....NR

The Coaches foolishly ranked Michigan and did not have Alabama listed at all. And, it gets worse.... 16 Teams ended the season ranked 10 spots or more lower than they began (64%) with an astonishing 14 of those being un-ranked today (56%).

With the mistake of Georgia beginning the season at number 1, however, both the AP and the Coaches did reasonably well predicting the top 5. While Ohio State began the season over rated by some 7 positions, they do not fall outside the 10 spot criteria (Which was, admittedly, arbitrarily choosen).


So.... there ya go.... draw your own conclusions.

As I look these over I am amazed at the consistency of Charlie Weiss coached teams. Their position vis-a-vis the Top 25 never varied, or the variance was well within one standard deviation. Now that is an enhanced strategic advantage.

 

[daveeb]

Sure... that's great... now... what do you do when Cincy get's Hot and wins the NC? You ready to call them the "best" team of 2008? Of course not. They're not even in the damn conversation, but your formulation gives them the opportunity. [censored] that.

The Giants sure as hell didn't care that the media wasn't calling them the best team of 2007. They were just fine and dandy with their Super Bowl rings. Same for the Steelers in 2005.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Then we should call the 2006 Buckeyes the best team of 2006. We were the best team from August to November. Why did we even play that silly bowl game? Let's go back where we have four different organizations giving out National Championships. How could you arbitrarily differentiate between three or four one loss teams? The BSC was going to solve this and it is not.

In every sport you can point out where a "Wild Card" team wins the tournament and is called Champions. If you don't like that we could name two champions, a regular season champ and a tournament champ. Now how are you going to name the regular season champ?

The 2006 Buckeyes may well have been the best team of 2006. They aren't the champion, though, and the team they lost to - who like Ohio State finished 12-1 - can also argue (with more firepower) that they were the best team in 2006. I'd personally have to give the nod to Florida, but I can conceive of an argument for Ohio State.

Second, not liking the BCS system doesn't render it arbitrary, and it does exactly what you wonder about - differentiate between otherwise like teams. It absolutely HAS solved it... just people now get their shorts in a bunch because it doesn't always match the human polls...

Which... is of course absurd, considering the entire reason for the BCS in the first instance is because people couldn't trust the fucking polls...

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

The Giants sure as hell didn't care that the media wasn't calling them the best team of 2007. They were just fine and dandy with their Super Bowl rings. Same for the Steelers in 2005.

Once again.... I'm not saying they're not the champion. I'm saying the Giants were not the best team. In College football, we still try and crown the BEST team.. and I for one, like that a hell of a lot better than watching the "hot" team run through some handful of games during some arbitrary time during the calendar year.

I truly don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend... "Champion" is not the same word as "Best"

 

[lvbuckeye]

Does it bother you tOSU didn't get a chance in 98 b/c of MSU, but Tennessee got to have a chance with 1 loss?

Tennessee was undefeated. Free Shoe lost 24-7 to NC State.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Does it bother you tOSU didn't get a chance in 98 b/c of MSU, but Tennessee got to have a chance with 1 loss? Yes... because I am an Ohio State fan (same answer even with LV's correction)

Does it bother you USC, having one of the historic defenses of all time, will not get a shot? Not really. Too bad for them the rest of the Pac 10 is dreadful. Shouldnt' have lost to Oregon State, I guess.

Does it bother you Oklahoma may get a title birth over 1 loss Texas, after losing to Texas? Not really... upsets happen. Just because Texas is still pretty darn good, doesn't mean it wasn't actually just an upset.. we see this easily when the teams are vastly different (Stanford USC 2007)

Does it bother you undefeated Auburn got left out of a title game? Not in the least. Don't want to be left out? Fine, leave Louisiana Monroe, The Citadel, and Louisiana Tech off your schedule... play someone with a heartbeat.

.... my comments in bold

 

[lvbuckeye]

Once again.... I'm not saying they're not the champion. I'm saying the Giants were not the best team. In College football, we still try and crown the BEST team.. and I for one, like that a hell of a lot better than watching the "hot" team run through some handful of games during some arbitrary time during the calendar year.

I truly don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend... "Champion" is not the same word as "Best"

it's absolutely impossible to determine "best." it becomes a look test. if you want to determine the "best" team every year, you might as well get rid of the BCS and go back to the old system, because we all have differing opinions about who is best. they can't even determine who's the "best" team in the Big XII south, for pete's sake.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

it's absolutely impossible to determine "best." it becomes a look test. if you want to determine the "best" team every year, you might as well get rid of the BCS and go back to the old system, because we all have differing opinions about who is best. they can't even determine who's the "best" team in the Big XII south, for pete's sake.

Fine by me.

I'm not running away from the subjectivity, I'm embracing it. Of course it's subjective... That's part of what has drawn us all to it.. we get to argue about it... it's what we do... it's why we're here...

If we're gonna fuck around with it, we might as well not bullshit ourselves with this ridiculous notion that a playoff solves anything. You want a playoff? Fine, have your playoff. But, don't bullshit me with that being "proof" of anything.

You know, every year we hear about the USC team that gets left out... the Georgia team that's "playing as well as anyone in the country right now" Well.. fuck them... if they "deserve it" maybe they shouldn't have lost. Fuck them. I don't care about "hot" It's a body of work, not a handful of wins...

 

[BB73]

Tennessee was undefeated. Free Shoe lost 24-7 to NC State.

The other thing that people tend to forget is that Kansas State finished #3 in the BCS that year, tOSU was 4th (but they were the 'Best' team that year).

FSU was helped in the computers by playing aTm in one of the kickoff classic games at the start of the year, a game that I believe tOSU passed on that year.

And the human polls went for FSU over tOSU because their loss was earlier in the year.