Thad Matta (OSU's All Time Winningest Coach & 3x B1G COY, Butler HC)

[osugrad21]

CPD

Ohio State's Thad Matta has built championship teams ... if players would stay: Bill Livingston

by Bill Livingston / Plain Dealer Columnist Thursday March 19, 2009, 4:34 AM

John Kuntz / The Plain DealerOhio State's men's basketball team might be stringing together national titles if center Greg Oden, above in 2007, and several other talented players had not stayed for such short times at the school before bolting for the NBA.
Thad Matta remembers walking off with his center, Greg Oden, at the game-day shootaround before Ohio State lost the 2007 NCAA championship game to Florida. He thought the one shining moment would be his.
"I'd lived my whole life to get to that game, and then, when it came to my pregame speech, I had no words. We had won 22 games in a row. I said, 'Keep doing what you're doing.' "
If they had, if his freshmen had become sophomores and then juniors, Ohio State would be going for two titles in a row. Three if Daequan Cook had been able to guard anybody and could have been trusted in the 2007 Final Four.
Oden wouldn't be breaking down under the burden of an NBA schedule. After getting OSU to the championship game against the Gators as a freshman with one healthy hand, then winning a title the next year, Oden would be the greatest defensive force since Bill Russell.

Bebeto Matthews / Associated PressOhio State men's basketballl coach Thad Matta knows how to pick 'em ... if only he could figure out how to keep 'em.
Mike Conley Jr. wouldn't be going nowhere with the Memphis Grizzlies. Kosta Koufos would be the power forward. He would give opponents the "Z" treatment, popping outside like Zydrunas Ilgauskas and nailing 3-pointers.
Evan Turner would be the small forward, Cook the shooting guard.
David Lighty, Jon Diebler and Dallas Lauderdale would be on the bench. If he could tolerate sitting behind Oden, B.J. Mullens would be there, too.
Diebler would be the college version of Vinnie Johnson -- the "Human Microwave," an explosive sixth man in the NBA years ago.
But Oden, Conley, Cook and Koufos all are in the NBA. Mullens, a freshman, might leave after the season. Lighty, the team's best defender, is hurt.

Cont...

 

[Steve19]

I was surprised that Ohio State lost to Siena.

Thad Matta is a great coach Ohio State is lucky to have him. It is very clear that he has the right kind of values and communicates these to his players. Under his leadership, the Ohio State basketball program is, once again, a program that is respected and expected to do well.

Even successful programs can benefit from sometimes thinking about their "business model."

Under Coach Matta, the Ohio State business model has emphasized recruiting "lottery" basketball players, who play one year and leave the program. This means that Ohio State starts each year with players who are high on raw talent and low on experience in key playing positions. As teams become more experienced toward the end of the season, fans frequently comment that Coach Matta's teams "are beginning to gel."

Perhaps because it is not clear whether the lottery players will leave after one year, Ohio State has had difficulty recruiting depth in recent years, with the consequence that Ohio State frequently lacks bench strength. So, just as players begin to benefit from the effects of experience, the effects of playing so many minutes a game take their toll.

Even at this young age, and no matter how good the strength and conditioning program, the body can take so much stress. Ohio State players typically seem to enter the last part of the season and postseason showing signs of distress and fatigue, physically and mentally.

Siena is a good team, ranked #18 in RPI. But, they played a very weak schedule during the year and lost to every other top team they played. Ohio State had better coaching and playing talent and should not have lost to that team.

The Ohio State's business model is not "wrong." It might work if Ohio State played that kind of schedule--they don't. So, the question Coach Matta and his staff must now explore is, "Is our business model right for a Big Ten team and the schedule we must play every year?"

If not, should Ohio State be surprised about losing to Siena?

Coach Matta has an excellent reputation and is a master recruiter. Ohio State is very lucky to have him. I have no doubt that he understands a lot more about his business model than I do, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to suggest that he take some time and rethink it during the off-season.

Even the best of coaches need to ask not only, "Are we doing things right?" but "Are we doing the right things?" Changing circumstances and persistent results suggest that Ohio State may not be.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Even successful programs can benefit from sometimes thinking about their "business model."

Under Coach Matta, the Ohio State business model has emphasized recruiting "lottery" basketball players, who play one year and leave the program.

If your "lottery" players turn out to be Greg Oden and Mike Conley, then the "business model" works just fine ... but if they turn out to be Kosta Koufos and B.J. Mullens, then not so much.

If you know going in that certain players are "one and done", then you have to make sure not to "miss" on the rest of the recruits. Maybe that's where Matta's true weakness lies....

 

[BB73]

In any evaluation of 2008-09, I think it's worth noting that this season was adversely affected by an injury in December; which ended the year for the team captain, who was the most experienced player on the team and the defensive leader on the floor.

 

[Colvinnl]

In any evaluation of 2008-09, I think it's worth noting that this season was adversely affected by an injury in December; which ended the year for the team captain, who was the most experienced player on the team and the defensive leader on the floor.

Amen. The team struggled when they become one-dimensional (i.e.---Diebler was cold and Buford was somewhat lost). If the opponent just needed to shut down Turner we were in trouble. Having Lightly might have changed that situation dramatically.

 

[GrizzlyBuck]

Great write up Steve. I agree that Matta has an excellent business model. I think that we are entering a period where we will find out how well his plan works.

The Bucks will have some Seniors next year and a very nice talented, experienced group of Juniors (specially if ET sticks to his plan of returning) Add in another off season of hard work for guys with lots of untapped potential (Dallas, Offutt, Buford, once again assuming he doesn't decide to bolt for the league) and next years group could be a force to contend with. Having Lighty back as the quiet leader and hopefully ET back as a more vocal leader as well as Diebs will really help in those down periods of the games where the teams have just looked lost. I also love hearing how focused PJ is in improving his game so he can be an asset not only on defense and with energy, but on the offensive side of the ball as well.

By the 2010-2011 year the Bucks will once again have some solid Junior and Senior leadership and experience to help the incoming young studs ala Lewis, Harris, Twiggs and Butler in Oden, Conley, Cook and Lightys frosh campaign.

What is needed, IMO, is that stabilizing hand that the upperclassmen lend to the precocious youngsters and hopefully Matta finally has his players in place with talented 3-4 year guys to go with the 1-2 year wonders that will get the Bucks where we and more specially he wants them to go.

 

[LitlBuck]

In any evaluation of 2008-09, I think it's worth noting that this season was adversely affected by an injury in December; which ended the year for the team captain, who was the most experienced player on the team and the defensive leader on the floor.

Looking back at the entire season that could be true. Maybe if Lighty would not have suffered that injury we probably would have had more wins and may be some of the guys would have been more rested at the end of the season. However, I do not think that the loss of David was why we lost in the first round of the tournament and I know that is that what you said but it is my belief that without a true PG (one who could penetrate and also shoot) was the downfall of this team.

 

[MaxBuck]

Billy Gillispie has one more year in Lexington to turn things around. It will be interesting to see whether Kentucky calls on Thad when Billy Clyde gets axed.

 

[LitlBuck]

If your "lottery" players turn out to be Greg Oden and Mike Conley, then the "business model" works just fine ... but if they turn out to be Kosta Koufos and B.J. Mullens, then not so much.

If you know going in that certain players are "one and done", then you have to make sure not to "miss" on the rest of the recruits. Maybe that's where Matta's true weakness lies....

I usually don't disagree with you but here I have to take exception. I would be shocked if Matta did not know that Oden and Cook were not going to be one and done players coming out of high school. Conley might have been the exception. There was also a lot of talk about KK and Mullens both leaving college after one year when they were coming out of high school. All of these guys were McDonald's All American's and Thad had to have a damn good idea that the stage were not going to stick around Ohio State for more than one year.

 

[Steve19]

I usually don't disagree with you but here I have to take exception. I would be shocked if Matta did not know that Oden and Cook were not going to be one and done players coming out of high school. Conley might have been the exception. There was also a lot of talk about KK and Mullens both leaving college after one year when they were coming out of high school. All of these guys were McDonald's All American's and Thad had to have a damn good idea that the stage were not going to stick around Ohio State for more than one year.

Don't forget Conley's recent statement that he "really let Coach Matta down" by leaving early for the pros. Apparently, he consistently told Matta that he was not going. I still think he should have stayed for another year.

 

[LitlBuck]

BuckeyeXtra - The Columbus Dispatch : Bob Hunter commentary: OSU men need talent as well as continuity

Bob Hunter commentary: OSU men need talent as well as continuity
Sunday, March 22, 2009 3:22 AM
By Bob Hunter

DAYTON -- College basketball's current caste system can be either sweetly satisfying or maddeningly frustrating.

What Siena fans cheered in the Saints' two-overtime victory over Ohio State on Friday night was a smart, junior- and senior-laden team of overachievers. What exasperated Buckeyes fans saw on their side was not necessarily the bad coaching or bad players they might have thought they saw, but the result of constantly starting over.

Just two disappointing seasons removed from a trip to the NCAA title game, just five seasons removed from Jim O'Brien's oft-criticized strategy of not going after top-level recruits, the recruiting method responsible for the highs and lows under coach Thad Matta has become a frequent topic of debate.

To me, it's a no-brainer. Programs that aspire to Final Four heights -- and with all due respect, that doesn't include Siena -- have to recruit five-star high school players. But if the players are too good or have too much potential, which NBA teams value above skill, they are sometimes gone before they have contributed much.

This certainly describes Kosta Koufos, who left Ohio State after a dizzyingly inconsistent freshman season, and it probably describes greener-than-an-Irish-shamrock freshman B.J. Mullens, too.

Like most freshmen, these enigmatic players don't know what they don't know. Like players whose roots barely penetrate the program's soil, they sometimes seem disinclined to find out. It doesn't describe Greg Oden and Mike Conley Jr. or even Daequan Cook, because they took the Buckeyes to that NCAA title game. But Oden and Conley were also once-in-a-generation players who went in the first four picks of the NBA draft. That makes for tough comparisons.

With the signs pointing to Mullens' departure, many second-guessers will say Ohio State should never have recruited him, especially after the experience with Koufos. I say you have no choice.

Matta obviously doesn't, either. But at times this season, he also has talked about the difficulty of starting over, of spending the first month or two trying to figure out who his players are and where they fit, and of indoctrinating the newcomers into the college game. It's a major program's Catch-22.

On Friday night, sophomore Evan Turner and freshman William Buford said that they are coming back; Mullens was noncommittal. With Turner, Buford, Jon Diebler, Dallas Lauderdale, P.J. Hill, Jeremie Simmons, injured junior David Lighty and 7-foot UAB transfer Zisis Sarikopoulos and junior-college transfer Nikola Kecman already practicing with the team, the Buckeyes won't hit the restart button next season, even if Mullens leaves.

For Ohio State fans looking for something to cheer about it, that is about as good as it gets. Assuming Turner and Buford return, the Buckeyes will not only have an experienced lineup, but one with a lot of talent. A little more experience probably would have made the difference against Siena, which benefited from Ohio State's sloppy play and poor decisions at key moments.

Continued

 

[GrizzlyBuck]

I return again to the notion that February and March BBall is predominantly about guard play (look no further than all the fretting over UNC'a Lawson) Losing Conley early and having no chance to get in on an elite HS PG after his declaration, then having made that deal with Noopy to not recruit another PG during those few years after he committed (and obviously his defection) has put this years team, and maybe next years at a drastic disadvantage. PG is one place where you need that steady calm hand to keep guys on an even keel when things aren't going well.

Hopefully the returning trio of PG and combo guards, Hill, Simmons and Offutt, will work their tails off this off season and become more able to provide that leadership out front. I also hold out hope that Turner, Lighty and to some extent Buford and Diebs will be able to help out some by being point forwards and taking some pressure off of the truer guards.

I hope that Coach has learned the perils of relying on juco PG's and will be able to do a better job of bringing in HS point guards to mold. Once again however if said HS guard turns out to be a mega talent like Conley, it can put you in a hole, that is just one of the dangers of going after the elite talent.

 

[LitlBuck]

I return again to the notion that February and March BBall is predominantly about guard play (look no further than all the fretting over UNC'a Lawson) Losing Conley early and having no chance to get in on an elite HS PG after his declaration, then having made that deal with Noopy to not recruit another PG during those few years after he committed (and obviously his defection) has put this years team, and maybe next years at a drastic disadvantage. PG is one place where you need that steady calm hand to keep guys on an even keel when things aren't going well.

Hopefully the returning trio of PG and combo guards, Hill, Simmons and Offutt, will work their tails off this off season and become more able to provide that leadership out front. I also hold out hope that Turner, Lighty and to some extent Buford and Diebs will be able to help out some by being point forwards and taking some pressure off of the truer guards.

I hope that Coach has learned the perils of relying on juco PG's and will be able to do a better job of bringing in HS point guards to mold. Once again however if said HS guard turns out to be a mega talent like Conley, it can put you in a hole, that is just one of the dangers of going after the elite talent.

I think Conley was an exception to the rule. There are not that many PG's who are one and done players. Those guys usury and the 7' or the wing players who can do it all. I think there are plenty of PG's out there who are exceptionally talented and would stay for more than one or two years. Matta just has to go out and recruit the hell out of one of them. We desperately need a point guard for the 2010 season and hopefully Hill and Simmons will be able to fill the role better next year.

 

[Jake]

I posted this in another thread but I think it belongs here, for perspective:

We have had 11 coaches since 1910. Thad Matta is the winningest of them all. He has won 73.4% of his games at OSU. The program has won 59.2% of its games, all time (over 2,400 games).

We're all disappointed about losing to Siena, but some of the reactions to it have been a bit over the top in my eyes. Is there room for improvement? Sure, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[LitlBuck]

I posted this in another thread but I think it belongs here, for perspective:

We have had 11 coaches since 1910. Thad Matta is the winningest of them all. He has won 73.4% of his games at OSU. The program has won 59.2% of its games, all time (over 2,400 games).

We're all disappointed about losing to Siena, but some of the reactions to it have been a bit over the top in my eyes. Is there room for improvement? Sure, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I can't speak for others but I am not ready to do what you suggest. However, please don't start comparing Coach Matta to Coach Taylor. That is a very unfair comparison because Taylor won a national championship and when to quit a few Final Fours.

Saying that, I would like to see what type of direction Coach Matta takes as far as his recruiting. He needs to find a direction where he can bring in quality talent that will keep the basketball program close to the same level year after year. I guess my question to everyone would be if they would consider the football program to be a success if it fluctuated year after year. I am willing to give him some time (3-4 years) and then look back and see which way the basketball program has gone.