Tebow, religion, and eyeblack

[Steve19]

14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God.

(King James Bible, Romans)


2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

(King James Bible, Colossians)


9:13 This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me: There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it: Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man. Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard. The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools.

(King James Bible, Ecclesiastes)

Again, I do not think it is fair to criticize Tim Tebow exclusively. Many people, such as me, find his religious values commendable. Still, I do not feel that this behavior is appropriate, practically or in Scripture.

 

[jwinslow]

Well, we're doing well with the reverse (and erroneous) stuffing of bible verses

Though I guess it is on-topic since this thread started with references to fake loudmouths whose religion is about performing but with no faith in their heart. Regardless of whether you feel Tebow should represent God publically, I doubt many would accuse him of being insincere.

LOL at the Persecuted Christian Syndrome!

No one, atheist or theist, is going after Tebow for putting Bible verses on his face, or having a relationship with any supernatural beings.

I was targeting Ord specifically, particularly given his tendency to shove his beliefs about school & individual conduct down other schools' throats, especially around ohio.

The complaint is about the freakin' media and commentators who stop commenting on the game itself and go all TBN on us.

Agreed, but if he quoted Vince Lombardi or Gandhi, we'd probably have those read to us as well.

ESPN is certainly prone to hyperbole, but most of their premiere game broadcasts (save USC & Herbie) are bearable. CBS has played an enormous role in the hatred and cult creepiness surrounding a great kid, winner & leader like Tebow.

 

[GomerBucks]

I am a Christian, but I don't go to church enough, I don't tithe what I am supposed to tithe, and I do a lot of things that aren't prescribed by the good book... I have also been the lead in guest speaker at church for one James Laurinaitis, who as you saw in a picture earlier in this thread writes bible verses on his eye black. As I was standing up there, two things went through my mind.... 1. keep it short because James Laurinaitis is after me and now one really knows who the heck I am. 2. I am sure there are "better Christians" in the audience than myself. Funny thing is, I was able to share some of my testimony and it felt wonderful. again, I still dont go to church enough, and I dont tithe enough and I still do a lot of things that run contrary to the Bible....... enough on that

I also do not like the University of Florida and for the past few years I have felt nauseated by the coverage of one Tim Tebow. At the beginning of the season I thought "Why couldn't he have gone pro?! Now I have to sit through another season of ESPN's round the clock coverage of Tebow.... Why couldnt he be in the NFL backing up Jamarcus Russell or something..."


All that being said, my point is this; I fought for our country's right to have freedom of speech. If Tim wants to profess his love for his religion and his faith he can freaking do it. Turn the channel if it is that offensive. Some people find Rock of Love, School of Love and all the other VH1 smut to be offensive and so they choose not to watch it. Some people don't watch rated R movies. People have a choice when it comes to what they do for entertainment.

Also, someone said he should have gone to Liberty if he wanted to flaunt his faith.... All I gotta say is C'Mon Son!!! C'mon Son!!! Get the F*#@ out of here with that BS... This is a guy who won the Heisman as a Soph and is the first three time finalist in the Heisman voting... Love him or hate him, he is one of the best collegian football players to come through in a long time. He is competitive and he plays hard... He is good enough to play for ANY university in the country and no school would ever tell him to suppress his faith to attend.

The other thing is, while he plays for a school that beat our brains in a couple years ago and he gets more coverage in the media than anyone in the history of TV (other than the sitting prez, good lord) The attention he gets is because he is a football player who has won National Champioships, the Heisman and he does some extra ordinary things with his free time that 99.9999% of college kids wouldn't ever consider...

We get tired of watching him because he isn't a Buckeye. He is doing his thing and it isn't mine or anyone elses job to tell him to stop.....

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I guess this is where we differ: I can see no reason for the gesturing, parading around, pointing at the sky, wearing of Biblical verses and the host of public displays than proselytizing.

Want to thank God? Fine. Commendable, in my opinion. Walk to the sideline, get out of the public spotlight, and offer a silent prayer to God.

Want to be meritorious in the eyes of God, then pray frequently for others without them realizing it so that your prayer is not sullied by self-motivations.

These athletic displays are nothing short of marketing, which cheapen religion and have the opposite of their intended effect.

This guy

and this guy

have the same objective in mind and are behaving in this manner for that reason.

Extremely well said. It's more about "look at how Christian I am" than about one's personal relationship with God and faith.

Personally, I'll be very disappointed in Tressel if OSU's new eye black policy is suddenly removed the next time another Buckeye wants to parade his Christianity for the television cameras.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

no school would ever tell him to suppress his faith to attend.

it isn't mine or anyone elses job to tell him to stop.....

No one is saying that UF should suppress his faith, nor that Ohio State should have done similarly to Laurinitis.

The issue is whether an athlete should be able to use his position on the team--particularly at a secular, public university--to flaunt and parade his particular chosen sectarian faith. Let him speak at churches in his spare time. Let him be an active member of campus Christian groups. I don't care. When he's representing the university in public at official university events, give it a rest. Whether it's christianity or any other faith or one's political inclinations, keep it off the field.

BTW, I have little doubt that those who are first to applaud Tebow or Laurinitis for using their role as athletes to flaunt their religion, were the first to demonize that Muslim NBA player who used his position to flaunt his own personal religious/political views for the audience and the cameras. The only difference is that the former swims with cultural tide in this country while the latter did not. Both, however, are wrong.

 

[GomerBucks]

No one is saying that UF should suppress his faith, nor that Ohio State should have done similarly to Laurinitis.

The issue is whether an athlete should be able to use his position on the team--particularly at a secular, public university--to flaunt and parade his particular chosen sectarian faith. Let him speak at churches in his spare time. Let him be an active member of campus Christian groups. I don't care. When he's representing the university in public at official university events, give it a rest. Whether it's christianity or any other faith or one's political inclinations, keep it off the field.

Neither James or Tim have ever said the University endorses their religion. also, once again, we are talking about your rights to free speech. You don't lose that when you choose to go to college, in fact, free speech is encouraged when you are getting your education.

BTW, I have little doubt that those who are first to applaud Tebow or Laurinitis for using their role as athletes to flaunt their religion, were the first to demonize that Muslim NBA player who used his position to flaunt his own personal religious/political views for the audience and the cameras. The only difference is that the former swims with cultural tide in this country while the latter did not. Both, however, are wrong.

I have never criticized anyone for practicing their faith...The Koran is one of the most peaceful books ever written... There are those that twist some of the text to turn it militant, just like there are radical Christians....

If the NCAA wants to tell kids they can't write on their eyeblack because Joe Athiest is offended by the mere presence of someone with faith on TV, so be it. They will find other ways to profess their faith and witness... Many College kids these days who are finding their way often feel shame to admit their religious convictions because it isn't "cool". It is refreshing to see one who will stand up and be who he is even though he will be ridiculed. And Tebow isn't just being ridiculed by Todd at the frat house... He gets it from all over America. He hasn't lashed out. He hasn't bent to the pressures of a nation full of those who feel you shouldn't be able to bring your faith out in public.

'' To educate the mind without morals is to create a menace to society '' - Roosevelt

 

[muffler dragon]

BTW, I have little doubt that those who are first to applaud Tebow or Laurinitis for using their role as athletes to flaunt their religion, were the first to demonize that Muslim NBA player who used his position to flaunt his own personal religious/political views for the audience and the cameras. The only difference is that the former swims with cultural tide in this country while the latter did not. Both, however, are wrong.

5280.com - October 2007 - The Conversion of Chris Jackson

 

[GomerBucks]

5280.com - October 2007 - The Conversion of Chris Jackson

I grew up in Denver and am a Nuggets fan

Abdul Rauf was an awesome Basketball player and Denver loved him until he decided to sit.... Now, even though his motivation for sitting during the anthem was religious, the reaction was not because of his choice of religion, but to the disrespect to our National Anthem. While I don't agree with Rauf... It was his right.

It is interesting to bring this one up but I think where this doesn't apply is because Tebow has not disrespected any nation in his actions. Now if he had determined that it would be God's will for him to write "F*%# Canada" on his eye black while playing in Toronto...

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Neither James or Tim have ever said the University endorses their religion. also, once again, we are talking about your rights to free speech. You don't lose that when you choose to go to college, in fact, free speech is encouraged when you are getting your education.

The notion that this is a first amendment issue is absurd. No athlete has any right--constitutional or otherwise--to use university sanctioned events to get his particular message out be it John 3:16 or Mika Vick.

If a public university were to kick Tebow off the team because of his off field religious activities, one might conceivably argue that a state institution is sanctioning him for his views. That, however, is a fundamentally different matter than him not being subject to a team rule as to what he can paint on his body during games: a rule, I might add, that Tressel instituted in the wake of "Mika Vick."

 

[GomerBucks]

The notion that this is a first amendment issue is absurd. No athlete has any right--constitutional or otherwise--to use university sanctioned events to get his particular message out be it John 3:16 or Mika Vick.

If a public university were to kick Tebow off the team because of his off field religious activities, one might conceivably argue that a state institution is sanctioning him for his views. That, however, is a fundamentally different matter than him not being subject to a team rule as to what he can paint on his body during games: a rule, I might add, that Tressel instituted in the wake of "Mika Vick."

So.... are you mad that he shows his faith in public or that it is written on his eye black? We can make the eye black the issue, but again, if it is a rule that you can't write on your eye black, so be it. Is the next target praying on the sideline? Kneeling after a TD? Giving thanks to God in an Interview?

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

So.... are you mad that he shows his faith in public or that it is written on his eye black? We can make the eye black the issue, but again, if it is a rule that you can't write on your eye black, so be it. Is the next target praying on the sideline? Kneeling after a TD? Giving thanks to God in an Interview?

Let's take it in the other direction. How does the next Tim Tebow take his game to the next level. Does he demand the right to put a cross on his helmet? His jersey? Maybe a bible verse instead of his name? How about He Love Me.

Again, if someone wants to pray on the sideline, I don't have a problem with it. While I find the sky pointing to be ridiculous, I really don't have much of a problem with it. Tebow and others like him crossed a line when they start painting bible verses on their face.

Let Tebow spend his afternoons as one of those annoying campus preachers for all I care. Just don't use a university sponsored event to shove sectarian religious statements in everyone's face.

Out of curiosity, what will your opinion of Tressel be if he holds firm to Ohio State's team eyeshadow rule, when the next Buckeye wants to paint himself up with scripture?

 

[jwinslow]

That, however, is a fundamentally different matter than him not being subject to a team rule as to what he can paint on his body during games:

But you're not talking about a team rule. You're talking about a public university - or a fan - telling Tebow he's not allowed to be openly Christian in a public venue.

You're not rallying against individual messages on eye black. You're protesting against the ones you don't like, because you have a personal problem with it.

a rule, I might add, that Tressel instituted in the wake of "Mika Vick."

A terrible reference, but unsurprising. Pryor showed his support for a criminal (albeit a possibly reformed one), and proceeded to say that everyone kills people. But carry on with that sharp comparison.

So.... are you mad that he shows his faith in public or that it is written on his eye black? We can make the eye black the issue, but again, if it is a rule that you can't write on your eye black, so be it. Is the next target praying on the sideline? Kneeling after a TD? Giving thanks to God in an Interview?

He believes in Tebow's freedom of speech as long as he doesn't have to witness it.

 

[jwinslow]

Let Tebow spend his afternoons as one of those annoying campus preachers for all I care. Just don't use a university sponsored event to shove sectarian religious statements in everyone's face.

Ord, you use public university topics to shove your beliefs down our throats virtually every day. This crusade of yours is quite inconsistent.

Out of curiosity, what will your opinion of Tressel be if he holds firm to Ohio State's team eyeshadow rule, when the next Buckeye wants to paint himself up with scripture?

JT can ban family member initials, words of wisdom and puns too. He can also remove nameplates, visors, arm bands & any other optional individual styles sported by players. That's his option and right as the coach. That doesn't mean others should be banned from wearing them.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

A terrible reference, but unsurprising. Pryor showed his support for a criminal .

If this is a 1st amendment issue, which it's not, then the content of Pryor's speech doesn't mean a thing. He has the same alleged right to praise Michael Vick on his eyeshadow as Tebow does to praise Jesus Christ. In fact, the 1st amendment was written precisely to protect unpopular content such as Pryor's rather than merely allow what the majority believes in the first place.

If it's a team rule issue, which it is, then for consistency sake how do you police what is acceptable and unacceptable messages for one's face during a game. Jesus is ok as is CHOOSE LIFE, but what about "NO GOD" or PRO CHOICE? How about pro or anti Obama messages?

Tressel was right, in the wake of the Pryor fiasco, to institute a blanket ban on players using the game to get their "message" out via painting their face. I fully expect him to be consistent in his application of this rule.

 

[Buckeneye]

Geroge Carlin said it best...

"What can we do to silence these Christian atheltes?!? - Who, thank god when they win, but never mention him when they lose"

"God made me fumble the ball" or "The good lord tripped me up behind the line of scrimage"


Your religous values and your devotion to god should not, in turn, bring glory unto yourself, more or less that too is a sin. I'm fine with the eye blacks, and some pointing - but sometimes it gets to be a bit much.

Seriously fellas, god has no hand in football games, I'm sure even he would find that a bit unethical. So while your gesturing after your touchdowns, or big plays, keep in mind I doubt The Almighty really wants to be mentioned as a cause for your team losing

Pryor showed his support for a criminal

I hate to touch on this, but Vick is no longer a criminal. While he was serving his time he was in fact one, but once release he has paid his debt to society makes
him just as much not a criminal as you or I (unless, you've been doing some suspicous activity Jwins? )

I mean, I was arrested when I was young and charged with a misdemeanor; does that mean I'm still a criminal?


The only title I think that sticks is Sex Offender. Even then, the word Offender is past tense...