Tebow, religion, and eyeblack

[BayBuck]

I don't know Tebow's thoughts on it, but there sure seems to be a lot of smoke there. Warner's, however, are clear. He has clearly stated that God favors him on the field ahead of other players because Kurt's glory is reflected back onto God. How Warner squares that with the parallel success of a TO or Ray Lewis, I'd be curious to hear him try to explain. Logically, if one is to take Warner's belief in an active deity that micromanages daily life down to who gets to throw a touchdown pass in an NFL game, then that deity is obvisously spending more time on Kurt's game than on whether that kid gets leukemia or not.

This is obviously going off onto a tangent here, but I don't think there's a logical necessity that because one player receives God's favor and performs well that all players who perform well are similarly favored. And you miss the point about omnipotence/omnipresence: God being involved in one thing does not limit his involvement anywhere else. But ultimately I think this is just about your own secular antipathy toward these players' open displays of religious belief, rather than an actual disagreement with the logic of that belief, and as Gator suggested above I doubt either would be too concerned with your criticism.

 

[gracelhink]

I don't know Tebow's thoughts on it, but there sure seems to be a lot of smoke there. Warner's, however, are clear. He has clearly stated that God favors him on the field ahead of other players because Kurt's glory is reflected back onto God. .

I am trusting you will provide a link to this Kurt Warner "clearly stated" indirect quote?

 

[BuckeyesBaby]

I watched this game this weekend and while I can say that I am beside absolute joy to UF losing a game finally, I will not take joy in TT crying on the sidelines.
You cannot fault a kid who played 110% with heart and soul on every play. I would have loved for some of that determination to be exhibited by our O-linemen in the 07 debacle in the dessert.

To the atheists and non religious people on here, it is absolutely sickening and disgusting that you would hold his personal beliefs against him and taunt him because of them. Why should it be any concerns of yours if he happens to choose God and try to live a better way of life. If the certain passage inspires, motivates, and it isn't something stupid like "Mika Vick" or "We all kill" then what is the harm of it? I have watched this kid play football for 4 years now and while I have to admit that the media and certainly most announcers made him out to be "the 2nd coming" or "Superman" was very nauseating, however he was possibly the best player in the last decade. He did everything from, leading to showing utmost respect and class to the other programs albeit with a little showboating when he won the national title against OU. Which I'm sure if given the opportunity most of you would have gone overboard with the celebrations. I will miss this kid he was very hard to tackle and bring down and rarely ever got hurt or didn't fire his team up after running over a linebacker. I am a huge Buckeye fan but I will miss this kid. And yes, before any of you ask I too have deep beliefs in God.

Now if your still reading kudos to you.

Onto the UF team. I can't say that I feel for any of your players, or coaches. You thought you were the best, the greatest team on land and you thought everyone loved you when really everyone hated you! They hated you because of the showboating from the Gator "chomps" to the eye-gouging, to the DUI before an SEC championship game with national title implications. We hated you because Urban Meyer thinks he was also the best and his "connection" with TT would always lead your team to the promise land. We hated how Urban Meyer would never take credibility or account for his players actions, and always decided to turn the other cheek in response to some of the antics displayed by Gators players. Lastly we will not miss you being a 63+ pt favorite over some small college and when you had them down and beat still had your first team starters playing in the 4th QTR claiming that "the game is never over." We won't miss you running the score up and calling timeouts just so you and your fans could celebrate with a lack of class at the other teams feelings and expense. You reap what you sew, right Timmy? So therefore, I believe you got what you deserved.

Sorry to any of the classy Gator fans on this board who just read that post.

With that said I hope you absolutely maul the UC team in the Sugar bowl. I'll even be Gators fan for the night.

 

[Buckeye513]

Why should it be any concerns of yours if he happens to choose God and try to live a better way of life.

It's not. Which is why people find it annoying when he flaunts it on national television.

 

[Gatorubet]

It's not. Which is why people find it annoying when he flaunts it on national television.

He was raised by Missionaries to believe what he believes. He was home schooled. So just like fundamentalist kids who believe in fundamentalism, or Catholics or Mormons or Atheists raised that way, he is doing what his evangelist parents taught him. They believe that they are supposed to go out and talk about their faith, that they are required to do so.

So when I go to the door and I see a Jehovah's Witness, I thank them for caring for me, tell them that I am pretty solid in my personal beliefs, but thank you for coming and have a nice day. I do this instead of slamming the door on them. So just ignore it. At least he is not going around saying how others are doing everything wrong- he is merely saying what works for him.

 

[muffler dragon]

He was raised by Missionaries to believe what he believes. He was home schooled. So just like fundamentalist kids who believe in fundamentalism, or Catholics or Mormons or Atheists raised that way, he is doing what his evangelist parents taught him. They believe that they are supposed to go out and talk about their faith, that they are required to do so.

So when I go to the door and I see a Jehovah's Witness, I thank them for caring for me, tell them that I am pretty solid in my personal beliefs, but thank you for coming and have a nice day. I do this instead of slamming the door on them. So just ignore it. At least he is not going around saying how others are doing everything wrong- he is merely saying what works for him.

So sayeth the Presbyter!

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

To the atheists and non religious people on here, it is absolutely sickening and disgusting that you would hold his personal beliefs against him and taunt him because of them. Why should it be any concerns of yours if he happens to choose God and try to live a better way of life.

99% of the backlash against Tebow is not that he chooses these religious beliefs. It's that he chooses to use a secular, public university as a platform for shoving his chosen religious beliefs down everyone else's throat.

If he wanted to choose a school as a vehicle for proselytizing the nation, he should have gone to Oral Roberts or Liberty.

 

[TDG]

No - and this is coming from an atheist, mind you - it's that "God" has given them talents which allow them to have a public platform from which they can spread "His Word". Christians are specifically called to spread the gospel of Christ, and some of them take that calling seriously. You may find it annoying, but they feel that they are trying to help you by selling you Jesus ... just like Proctor & Gamble feels that they are trying to help you by selling you soap. When ads come on the TV or radio, I simply turn them off ... but I don't accuse the advertisers of having "narcissistic personality disorders" because they are trying to sell their product.

I agree. My problem with his biblical eyeblacks and all this other business is knowing, as an atheist, the kind of reaction that would stem from someone putting "THERE'S NO GOD" on his eyeblacks. But obviously, that's not Tebow's fault, so I don't begrudge him that.

 

[BB73]

He was raised by Missionaries to believe what he believes. He was home schooled. So just like fundamentalist kids who believe in fundamentalism, or Catholics or Mormons or Atheists raised that way, he is doing what his evangelist parents taught him. They believe that they are supposed to go out and talk about their faith, that they are required to do so.

So when I go to the door and I see a Jehovah's Witness, I thank them for caring for me, tell them that I am pretty solid in my personal beliefs, but thank you for coming and have a nice day. I do this instead of slamming the door on them. So just ignore it. At least he is not going around saying how others are doing everything wrong- he is merely saying what works for him.

So are we also supposed to close our eyes whenever a close-up of the eye-black is shown on TV? And hit the mute button when Verne quotes a couple of Bible verses, which was done twice 9 days ago because he thought "1,2" was "12". OK, there are times I'm willing to mute Verne, but I just want to watch a football game.

Like ORD pointed out earlier, opinions would be quite different if a star player had a Qu'ran verse on display.

But I don't blame Tebow for that. I blame the NCAA for allowing it - they should also have outlawed Jimmy Clausen's Adidas logos on his eyeblack.

I'm going to be spiltting this off shortly - it's not really a football discussion.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

He was raised by Missionaries to believe what he believes. He was home schooled. So just like fundamentalist kids who believe in fundamentalism, or Catholics or Mormons or Atheists raised that way, he is doing what his evangelist parents taught him. They believe that they are supposed to go out and talk about their faith, that they are required to do so.

Again, I don't have a problem with that in and of itself. If that was of paramount concern to him, He simply should have not chosen a secular, public university to use has his platform for proselytizing the college football world. Liberty University would seem to have been a much better choice.

 

[Gatorubet]

I agree. My problem with his biblical eyeblacks and all this other business is knowing, as an atheist, the kind of reaction that would stem from someone putting "THERE'S NO GOD" on his eyeblacks. But obviously, that's not Tebow's fault, so I don't begrudge him that.

No doubt. Many of the same people raving about Tim would be spit spraying obscentities if he suddenly said he was forming a "Fellowship of Wiccan Athletes" and wanted to gather in a circle and worship the moon on a night game.

But again, he has a right of freedom of expresssion, just as the critics of Tim doing that have a right to dislike it. I agree with BB73 that it would be better not to allow any eyeblack messages at all, as allowing everyone having their own idea what write will invariably result in someone putting something stupid or illegal on it that will create real problems.

 

[gracelhink]

Again, I don't have a problem with that in and of itself. If that was of paramount concern to him, He simply should have not chosen a secular, public university to use has his platform for proselytizing the college football world. Liberty University would seem to have been a much better choice.

Ord I am waiting on the link to the Kurt Warner paraphrase which you claim he "clearly stated."
According to Wikipedia, the University of Florida is not entirely a secular, public university. It traces its roots back to one of its 4 predecessor institutions which happens to be East Florida seminary!

The University of Florida traces its origins to 1853, when the East Florida Seminary, one of the University of Florida's four predecessor institutions, was founded in Ocala, Florida.
On January 6, 1853, Florida Governor Thomas Brown signed a bill that provided public support for higher education in the state of Florida.[18] Gilbert Kingsbury was the first person to take advantage of the legislation, and established the East Florida Seminary. The East Florida Seminary was the first state-supported institution of higher learning in Florida.[19] James Henry Roper, an educator from North Carolina and a state senator from Alachua County, built a school, the Gainesville Academy, around the same time. In 1866, after East Florida Seminary had closed during the American Civil War,[20] Roper offered his land and school to the State of Florida in exchange for the relocation of East Florida Seminary to Gainesville.[21]

University of Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Gatorubet]

Again, I don't have a problem with that in and of itself. If that was of paramount concern to him, He simply should have not chosen a secular, public university to use has his platform for proselytizing the college football world. Liberty University would seem to have been a much better choice.

I completely understand that view. I agree with a bunch of it. But going to a state school does not mean that you cannot have religious views, or that you have to abandon your personal religious views because you go to a state school. I don't think that anybody thinks that Tim's opinion is the official opinion of the University of Florida. I mean, I am pretty sure than a cradle Catholic like Urban and a strict constructionist Baptist are going to agree on theology.

But my personal belief is that a better policy would be to make a uniform "no messages on eye black" rule, as political or religious statements are by nature polarizing.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Ord I am waiting on the link to the Kurt Warner paraphrase which you claim he "clearly stated."
According to Wikipedia, the University of Florida is not entirely a secular, public university. It traces its roots back to one of its 4 predecessor institutions which happens to be East Florida seminary!


University of Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Honestly, I'm not going to try and dig up the Warner quote. I remember when it happened, and it was a minor wtf? moment in the press.

Here, however, is a very thoughtful reflection on the subject by a newspaper writer.

Warner's God talk should be off the record | PressDemocrat.com | The Press Democrat | Santa Rosa, CA

As for Florida's founding. That has nothing to do with its present status. Fredo of OHio and OU were founded by Presbyterians and Methodists. That doesn't make them any less secular or public in their current form.

Florida, regardless of the circumstances of its founding, is a secular, publicly funded university. No less so than Ohio State or Michigan.

 

[jwinslow]

for shoving his chosen ... beliefs down everyone else's throat.

I'd prefer the link for the definition of irony.