Brewtus;1427577; said:
But if there is no evidence that something exists, why is it rational to believe that it does exist anyway? Also, the "evidence" for and against God is not equal. And if you're going to open the door and believe that something exists without evidence, how do you know what to believe in and what not to? Do Zeus and Ra exist? If not, what criteria do you use to be certain of there non-existence which is different than your belief in God?
I think it's important that you remember what "kind" of G-d I'm talking about. It's surely not the one in the Bible. :)
Edit: I wanted to say more, but was called to dinner before I could get in to it...
I think my post on the previous page, regarding "rational" belief in G-d should be read as a response to the quoted material above in this post.
I would note we're not necessarily in agreement as to whether the "evidence" (and I am using that term somewhat loosely... (ie, theoretical implications of multiple universe theory) it's certainly not as easy as me proving my television exists.) is weighted for or against a G-d. So, while you suggest I'm opening the door to believe in something existing without evidence, I do not believe that to be so. I believe in things which "make sense" to me, and that do not defy the reality I see around me (Which I take as my starting point - I
know there is a reality around me, and it behaves in whatever manner it behaves. Whatever might be, must be in accord with this reality)
As an illustration - I believe in gravity. I've never seen it. I've never held it in my hand. I cannot touch it. I do not smell it, nor taste it. But, I do see things behave as if this thing we call gravity exists. This possible explination for an object's behavior in space is sensible and does not mean I have to accept some alternate form of reality to what I personally observe around me. That said, it's not the only possible explaination for why objects behave the way they do in space. For all I
know I am stuck to this earth by magic strings that I cannot feel, taste, touch or see.... I might as soon believe such a theory.... if there was some way to explain to me how these strings never broke. As it is, Gravity "makes sense" to me and offers a reasonable solution to the question at issue. In many ways there is as much "evidence" in invisible magic strings as there is for an invisible force... But, of course, the "string" theory would present more problems than does the gravity idea.... thus I go with Gravity.
Now then, tying in my post re: multiple universes, it's not my idea that the math which describes the existence of our universe in space time (11 dimensional) provides that there are more than likely an infinite amount of universes out there.... (Do a google on Level I, Level II, Level III and Level IV universe, or parrallel universe, here's a
wiki to get you started). That is to say, it's not my HOPE that there are multiple universes... it is something in line with a "fact" or at least, I hope you agree, "evidence"
Now, a consequence of infinite universes is that every possible universe, in fact, exists. If G-d is possible, then, he MUST exist.... just as it would be that If I can choose A or B, in this universe I choose A and in some other I choose B. That is my answer to the Omniscience/Free will question, incidentally.... I beleieve whatever G-d is, G-d knows the whole of all infinite universes, thus he is omniscient. I am only able to be in one universe, and thus I have an honest choice between A and B, which I make, in fact.... but... to G-d, I make both choices... not because I could.. but because I
actually do (in the multiverse.) So... again, I'm not sure if I can agree with you that there is more evidence against a G-d than there is evidence for one. I must confess to taking some pride in the fact that my idea of whatever G-d is is in accord with the most current thinking on the true nature of space-time. Indeed, thinking in these terms, for me, has made the idea of a a G-d highly likely. Thinking in terms of the bible or this lone universe, strangely, complicates matters. While I do think my version of G-d would still qualify for existence even if there is truly just this one universe.... I am also conviced that that G-d cannot be the one I read about in the Bible, as described therein to the fullest extent. (I balk there a bit because I do believe that the Bible is on some level man's ideas about G-d.... as likely to be in error as my own, but as likely to be on the mark at some level as well).
On the Ra, or Zeus question.... there are considerable differences to the creator G-d I am speaking about and the magical "Super-men" in clouds which I think Zeus and Ra are.... in many respects, and this is what I meant with my pre-edit response, I can see (and even agree) that the god talked about in the Bible might as well be a Unicorn or Zeus.... But, to be clear, that is not the G-d I am discussing. I will obviously defer to one of the board's more biblically oriented posters attempt to tackle your objection on those terms.
Hope that makes some sense....
:p
