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Stupid two point conversions (SimpLLLLLe Jim loves 'em, and so does James Franklin)

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OHSportsFan said:
Not the thread's intent, but I'll use it to give credit to Mark Dantonio for his use of the 2-point conversion yesterday against Notre Dame. He found money on the first one and then did what that idiot Helfrich should have done with Oregon/Nerbraska- he didn't do it again and used that point advantage to build a buffer the rest of the way. It may have ultimately kept Sparty from being Sparty and blowing the game as ND would have required a 2-pointer themselves to complete their furious comeback. Helfrich, on the other hand, ended up going 1-5 on his conversions and lost by 3 points.

I mean, I guess props to Helfrich for sticking to his philosophy, as idiotic as it may be. I guess.
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it really fucked over my fantasy team, though.
 
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NFBuck said:
Helfrich did well his first two years with Kelly's leftovers, but they're a pretty average team now that Chip's kids have matriculated.
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colobuck79 said:
quote-say-the-secret-word-and-win-a-hundred-dollars-groucho-marx-308116.jpg
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I was going to let it go prior to the second post, but I don't think that that word means what y'all think it means.
 
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And yes, Helfrich's an idiot. I actually get going for two the first time if it's your thing. It's an aggressive move to make your opponent feel like they're stuck in catch-up mode and has about a 50/50 chance of working. What I don't understand is why, after it works the first time, you try again for little marginal return (you've already put the opponent in the hole) and a 50/50 risk of losing that initial gain.
 
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colobuck79 said:
I first heard it uttered by Hank Stram, and I have been waiting my whole life to use it in a sentence.
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He didn't use it correctly either, although the clip of him using it is awesome. As Joe Theismann said: "There are no geniuses in football. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein."

What's funny about the Theismann quote, which he has been roundly mocked for, is that he actually knew a really smart guy named Norman Einstein.: http://jimcofer.com/personal/2009/10/29/righting-the-wrongs-joe-theismann/

Can you tell that we're playing BYE this week yet?
 
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It's pretty bad when you know it's coming as soon as they cross the goal line. BYU scored to make it 21-19 - with over 25 minutes left in the game - and what do they do? Yep, go for two.

They failed.
 
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Why should college coaches have all the fun? Down 35-23 with over 7 minutes left in the THIRD quarter Sean Payton dials up the STPC on MNF.

Mark Ingram bailed him out by running it in.
 
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Leave it to the Browns to join the party, after scoring a TD with just over 2 minutes left to cut the deficit to 28-19 they - of course - went for two. They failed, leaving it a two-score margin and killing any chance they have left. The Red Zone guy added to the stupidity with "the Browns now have to go for two to make it a one-score game...", oblivious to error of his ways.
 
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Jake said:
Leave it to the Browns to join the party, after scoring a TD with just over 2 minutes left to cut the deficit to 28-19 they - of course - went for two. They failed, leaving it a two-score margin and killing any chance they have left. The Red Zone guy added to the stupidity with "the Browns now have to go for two to make it a one-score game...", oblivious to error of his ways.
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Meh. They needed to go for two sometime. I don't mind that they knew they needed to score again.
 
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Zurp said:
Meh. They needed to go for two sometime. I don't mind that they knew they needed to score again.
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Agree. I'm convinced that if you have a "math brain" you would always say to go for 2 here. There seems to be a lot of people on both sides but all math people I know see it as a no brainer. It really comes down to a simple math tree to see why you would do it.
 
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Nope, it does matter when you do it and here's why. Kicking the XP and making it a one-score game changes what the leading team does when they get the ball. Going for two too soon and failing lets them off the hook. It's a two-score game and the pressure is off. Making it a one-score game gives them less margin for error and forces them to play differently.

"Simple math" shows your chances of converting a kick are significantly higher than making the two pointer - the statistics back that up. Football strategy I already explained above, something I suspect some "math people" do not take into consideration at all, shows the timing of when you go for it matters as well.
 
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Jake said:
Nope, it does matter when you do it and here's why. Kicking the XP and making it a one-score game changes what the leading team does when they get the ball. Going for two too soon and failing lets them off the hook. It's a two-score game and the pressure is off. Making it a one-score game gives them less margin for error and forces them to play differently.

"Simple math" shows your chances of converting a kick are significantly higher than making the two pointer - the statistics back that up. Football strategy I already explained above, something I suspect some "math people" do not take into consideration at all, shows the timing of when you go for it matters as well.
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I'd go for one. But I don't mind that they went for two at that point.
The way I see it is that if they had gone for one, and succeeded, yes, it's a one-score game, but even if you get the onside kick, you need to keep in mind that it might still be a 2-score game. You still need to make that 2-point conversion. If you play like it's a 1-score game, and manage the clock as such, you don't give yourself enough time to score that second time, should you miss that 2-point conversion. By going for two at that point, they (the Browns) knew that they had a 2-score game.
Again, I'd go for one, mostly for the reasons you stated. Score that next touchdown (like the Browns did) and THEN go for two. I think that puts more pressure on the other team. As it happened, the (whoever the fuck the Browns played - I already forget) knew they'd have 2 chances to recover 1 onside kick. Recover one of them and you win.
 
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Jake said:
Nope, it does matter when you do it and here's why. Kicking the XP and making it a one-score game changes what the leading team does when they get the ball. Going for two too soon and failing lets them off the hook. It's a two-score game and the pressure is off. Making it a one-score game gives them less margin for error and forces them to play differently.
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Yes, that is one side of the equation.
 
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