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Songs/Music style that you believe to suck or blow

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tedginn05 said:
Turntables are considered musical instruments. I have seen many rap artists use turntables.
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:smash:


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I suppose my CD player is a musical instrument as well? How about my mixer? I can mix two OTHER people's songs together quite nicely with it. Does that count?...Jeezus, WTF!...

As someone who is quite familiar with music production, what talent there is in hip hop comes from the producers, not the "artist" usually (this is more and more true in pop/rock as well BTW)...If these (artist/producer) happen to be the same person in some cases, fine, they have "music mixing" talent, which is completely different than "musical" talent..."Musical" talent requires years of mastering an instrument (a turntable not being one TG05)...

The melody is probably the toughest part of composing a song and a large part of rap does not even make an attempt at melody or they just sample someone else's. Just laying down a beat is not difficult, sorry but it just isn't. And yes, since it's been asked, I could make a rap beat in about 2 minutes with the equipment I have...OK, I exaggerate, maybe a half hour...I would, after all, have to round up all the samples I was going to use. You gotta love technology. If the beat is too slow or too fast, I just push a button. If I want to add another instrument, I just push a button. If I want to put my beat to a Rolling Stones sample, I got a button for that too...Copy/Paste or Drag/Drop the samples into my track and voila...There's my beat...I don't even have to make sure it's in time, the computer does that for me!!!...They are some talented button pushers...
[/rant]

All this being said, there are a few rap songs I like. I don't like rap generally, but there will be two or three a year that are pretty cool...
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
But, you know why Teddy's pushing for the record player to be an insturment? Because that would mean that these folks are actually making music rather than ripping off someone else and putting their own words over top of it. HEy,it worked for the beatnicks, why not rappers too.
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Rappers often do produce their own music, and if they don't, either their producer or a D.J. does. Just because the music is usually produced using methods - sampling, beatboxing, turntablism, etc. - other than pushing keys on a piano or strumming a guitar, doesn't mean that they don't have musical talent.
 
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Buckeye513 said:
Rappers often do produce their own music, and if they don't, either their producer or a D.J. does. Just because the music is usually produced using methods - sampling, beatboxing, turntablism, etc. - other than pushing keys on a piano or strumming a guitar, doesn't mean that they don't have musical talent.
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Copying and pasting samples into a computer program does not make you a musician...It makes you a computer programmer...Now if you play and record your own samples, with instruments you know how to play (Prince for example), we may have some agreement here...
 
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Saw31 said:
Copying and pasting samples into a computer program does not make you a musician...It makes you a computer programmer...Now if you play and record your own samples, with instruments you know how to play (Prince for example), we may have some agreement here...
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No, it doesn't. But, going by my and dictionary.com's definition of 'music', the ability to arrange those samples to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition does make you a musician.
 
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Buckeye513 said:
No, it doesn't. But, going by my and dictionary.com's definition of 'music', the ability to arrange those samples to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition does make you a musician.
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Then this is admitting it takes NO talent to do this, because it doesn't. Anyone with the proper computer program and a variety of samples can do this within literally a few minutes of set up...You can't have this discussion both ways...It either takes talent or it doesn't, and copying and pasting does not require talent...
 
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I think we have some differing opinions on what music ability is determined by.

I really don't consider the ability to play a instrument as how good of a artist a person is.

I consider music ability by the skill of the way the artist can sing or in a rapper's case, their ability to rap.

There is plenty of musicians out there that are the best singers, but can't play a instrument.
 
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tedginn05 said:
I think we have some differing opinions on what music ability is determined by.

I really don't consider the ability to play a instrument as how good of a artist a person is.

I consider music ability by the skill of the way the artist can sing or in a rapper's case, their ability to rap.

There is plenty of musicians out there that are the best singers, but can't play a instrument.
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Hey, I can agree with that...The point I am trying to make here is that technology has gotten to the point that anyone can do this stuff if you're motivated to do it. It does not make you a musician however. You can call yourself an "artist" if you like, or better yet, a "composition artist". But when I hear about how much talent it takes to make rap music, I know it's just plain false when compared to actual musicians playing actual instruments. A guitar or piano does not fix your errors or play themselves. Talent takes more than a couple bucks to buy a computer program.
 
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Saw31 said:
Then this is admitting it takes NO talent to do this, because it doesn't. Anyone with the proper computer program and a variety of samples can do this within literally a few minutes of set up...You can't have this discussion both ways...It either takes talent or it doesn't, and copying and pasting does not require talent...
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To organize the samples into an actual unique rap beat, yes, it does take a certain degree of talent. But obviously we also have different definitions for 'talent'.
 
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Saw31 said:
Hey, I can agree with that...The point I am trying to make here is that technology has gotten to the point that anyone can do this stuff if your motivated to do it. It does not make you a musician however. You can call yourself an "artist" if you like, or better yet, a "composition artist". But when I here about how much talent it takes to make rap music, I know it's just plain false when compared to actual musicians playing actual instruments. A guitar or piano does not fix your errors or play themselves. Talent takes more than a couple bucks to buy a computer program.
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No one here's comparing the musical ability of your average BET rapper to the musical ability of Kurt Cobain or Tom Morello. They played conventional instruments in their music, Eminem doesn't, I understand that. My point is that someone doesn't have to play an "actual" instrument in their music to be considered a musician, or musically talented, as music isn't defined as the sounds created when playing an instrument.
 
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I won't go as far as to say the rap takes no talent. Tupac was a brilliant lyricist at times, as was Biggie and Jay-Z has had his moments; there are others, but those come immediately to mind. I think Common is very talented, probably the best out there today. On the other hand, all that garbage from the south like Lil Jon and all that crunk garbage is just noise IMO. The same can be said about a lot of Rock/Metal music. As Saw said above, you can put some hacks behind instruments and with proper production and arrangement it can be made to sound decent. Their innate lack of ability will inveriably shine through in concert performances. At times what is pleasing to the ear does not equate to artistic credibility or musical ability. That's MY opinion.
 
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Buckeye513 said:
No one here's comparing the musical ability of your average BET rapper to the musical ability of Kurt Cobain or Tom Morello. They played conventional instruments in their music, Eminem doesn't, I understand that. My point is that someone doesn't have to play an "actual" instrument in their music to be considered a musician, or musically talented, as music isn't defined as the sounds created when playing an instrument.
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And the point I'm trying to make is that YOU could buy the right gear and do this tomorrow, no matter how much "musical talent" you think you may or may not have...You are falling for a myth that mixing samples together to make something that sounds cool, is hard...It's not hard...In fact, since the computer does all the hard work (timing, pitch control, error correction, etc.) just about anything you throw in there sounds pretty damn cool, as long as you can get ahold of the samples. Make a few words rhyme and you've got yourself a song...The hard part comes from dealing with the copyrights and paying all the royalties to the original "musicians" who performed and recorded the samples...
 
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Saw31 said:
And the point I'm trying to make is that YOU could buy the right gear and do this tomorrow, no matter how much "musical talent" you think you may or may not have...You are falling for a myth that mixing samples together to make something that sounds cool, is hard...It's not hard...In fact, since the computer does all the hard work (timing, pitch control, error correction, etc.) just about anything you throw in there sounds pretty damn cool, as long as you can get ahold of the samples. Make a few words rhyme and you've got yourself a song...The hard part comes from dealing with the copyrights and paying all the royalties to the original "musicians" who performed and recorded the samples...
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I could also buy a guitar, pluck a few strings, make a few words rhyme, and have a song.

Banging on a drum with sticks isn't very hard, or if we're talking about talent in general, neither is carrying a little brown ball over a line or throwing a round orange ball into a hoop. I probably could go to Best Buy tomorrow and buy a mixing program and make a beat, but it won't be unique, something that hasn't been done before, or something that appeals to people enough to make them want to buy it. I could also write a 3-verse song and a chorus, but again, it won't be unique or something that appeals to people enough to make them want to buy it. If it's just as easy as copying and pasting, then don't you think there would be alot more people rich people with gold teeth and spinners in the world today?
 
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