SimPLLLLLLLe Jim "6-13" Harbaugh (B1G Suspenders McKhakiPants, Cheater Cheater Booger Eater)

[AJHawkfan]

...this current one-sidedness will pass and things will even out as they have since 1900.

 

[Jaxbuck]

It's all speculation so to each their own but I can absolutely see a scenario where with an expanded playoff, a team like OSU is already in (like 2019) and some key guys are banged up going into The Game.

A coach is going to have to make a decision and while the interest in The Game will be there and al that, the real pressure will be to win the CCG a week later and then into the playoffs.

The model is the NFL and the more like the NFL playoffs you make it, the more like the NFL it is going to be. In the NFL rivalries are fun and all but guys get rested before the playoffs because the playoffs are all that really matters.

 

[pnuts34]

Nothing has happened that has lessened the Old Oaken Bucket game for IU and Purdue fans. Oregon and Oregon State still fill the stands. Wazuu and Washington still hate on one another. IMO OU and Okie State, at 90 - 18 - 7, is NOT a rivalry game. Texas - Oklahoma is where the blood gets spilled and that shows no signs of weakening. What has happened to the USC - UCLA game is the one game that breaks the mold. USC evidently considers the Notre Dame game more important and the last game of the year gig is gone.

I don't see The Game losing any interest - though it got to the point where I could barely stand to watch it in the 90's. Given the money, facilities, alum support, both schools possess, this current one-sidedness will pass and things will even out as they have since 1900.

You're making my point. Yes, fans still go to those games, but they are not nationally relevant. People in the pacific NW care about Oregon-Oregon St, UT-OU is becoming more and more southern midwest based, and on and on. The Game has lost interest to anyone that's not a fan of the B1G, and mainly just of the 2 schools. That was not the case 10yrs ago and further. That's what I was trying to say

 

[pnuts34]

It's all speculation so to each their own but I can absolutely see a scenario where with an expanded playoff, a team like OSU is already in (like 2019) and some key guys are banged up going into The Game.

A coach is going to have to make a decision and while the interest in The Game will be there and al that, the real pressure will be to win the CCG a week later and then into the playoffs.

The model is the NFL and the more like the NFL playoffs you make it, the more like the NFL it is going to be. In the NFL rivalries are fun and all but guys get rested before the playoffs because the playoffs are all that really matters.

And this is what CFB fans wanted for years, a true National Champion, and a playoff to determine that winner. But unlike the NFL, CFB doesn't have free agency, trades and a draft to keep parity in the sport. And what we're seeing is predictable, the best teams stockpile almost all of the talent because of recruiting. And the CFB attempt at free agency(transfer portal) isn't helping, because top talent is either leaving for inferior teams so that they can showcase for the NFL, or they just go to another top team.

 

[cincibuck]

A coach is going to have to make a decision and while the interest in The Game will be there and all that, the real pressure will be to win the CCG a week later and then into the playoffs.

I agree with most of what you're saying, Jax and pnut. I hate CCGs and CCTs because of what they do to the regular season. Also because they can easily put the second-best team in the conference out of the picture.

I would think/hope that if the playoffs are expanded, the need and interest in a CCG will lessen. They're more than likely going to be bullshit games because only one conference - the Pac 14 - has anything approaching equity in their divisions. If the CCGs don't die a natural death, there's going to be a time when a regular season undefeated team is upset in a CCG by a two or three-loss team from the other division. Imagine the wailing if a 12-0 Alabama was upset by 9-3 Florida, or if Northwestern had somehow upset the Bucks this year.

And speaking of this year - and other years - Notre Dame was given a pass on the "win your CCG" in 2018. In 2020, aTm was locked out by ND, who lost their CCG, and Ohio State, who only played 5 regular-season games.

 

[BB73]

I agree with most of what you're saying, Jax and pnut. I hate CCGs and CCTs because of what they do to the regular season. Also because they can easily put the second-best team in the conference out of the picture.

I would think/hope that if the playoffs are expanded, the need and interest in a CCG will lessen. They're more than likely going to be bullshit games because only one conference - the Pac 14 has anything approaching equity in their divisions. If the CCGs don't die a natural death, there's going to be a time when a regular season undefeated team is upset in a CCG by a two or three-loss team from the other division. Imagine the wailing if a 12-0 Alabama was upset by 9-3 Florida, or if Northwestern had somehow upset the Bucks this year.

And speaking of this year - and other years - Notre Dame was given a pass on the "win your CCG" in 2018. In 2020, aTm was locked out by ND, who lost their CCG, and Ohio State, who only played 5 regular-season games.

If they could get down to 4 major conferences, and make the CCGs the first round of the 8-team playoff, it would help retain the importance of the regular season games, and solve the problem of what to do with CCG losers in the playoff. They’re done.

 

[ScriptOhio]

If they could get down to 4 major conferences, and make the CCGs the first round of the 8-team playoff, it would help retain the importance of the regular season games, and solve the problem of what to do with CCG losers in the playoff. They’re done.

Just sayin': The "Gang of 5" conference teams and independents would bitch to high heaven (and file lawsuits) at being excluded.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I agree with most of what you're saying, Jax and pnut. I hate CCGs and CCTs because of what they do to the regular season. Also because they can easily put the second-best team in the conference out of the picture.

I would think/hope that if the playoffs are expanded, the need and interest in a CCG will lessen. They're more than likely going to be bullshit games because only one conference - the Pac 14 - has anything approaching equity in their divisions. If the CCGs don't die a natural death, there's going to be a time when a regular season undefeated team is upset in a CCG by a two or three-loss team from the other division. Imagine the wailing if a 12-0 Alabama was upset by 9-3 Florida, or if Northwestern had somehow upset the Bucks this year.

And speaking of this year - and other years - Notre Dame was given a pass on the "win your CCG" in 2018. In 2020, aTm was locked out by ND, who lost their CCG, and Ohio State, who only played 5 regular-season games.

You bring up a good point; I think the biggest risk is the CCG's in combination with the Playoff, not just the playoff by itself. Kill the CCG's and any kind of conference champ auto bids and you would think it gets us as close to/back to "every game matters" as you could hope for.

Like I said, seen them both now and I never thought I'd say it but the old Bowl tie in game model was better (at least for the B1G with the Rose Bowl waiting).

 

[pnuts34]

You bring up a good point; I think the biggest risk is the CCG's in combination with the Playoff, not just the playoff by itself. Kill the CCG's and any kind of conference champ auto bids and you would think it gets us as close to/back to "every game matters" as you could hope for.

Like I said, seen them both now and I never thought I'd say it but the old Bowl tie in game model was better (at least for the B1G with the Rose Bowl waiting).

problem with the old way is there was no way to decipher the true NC if multiple teams are undefeated. And then you have the argument of multiple teams being the champion at seasons end. There’s no freaking way that OSU fans would be happy with ending the season with a win over a PAC 12 champion(not even sure that was,Oregon?). Especially if a Bama team beats Clemson in the Sugar Bowl. Who would be the NC? At least with a playoff,there is a champion based off of playing the top ranked teams. It sucks for fans of teams like UCLA, Indiana, UNC, Texas Tech, and like 95% of CFB teams, but they’re no longer good enough to wear the crown. I don’t even think that expanding will do much. OSU, Bama , Clemson, OU, UGA, and ND have stockpiled a large percentage of the best HS, and do so yearly, they have a built in head start on the rest of the country.

Would you prefer we have 2021 Rose Bowl champion on our trophy, instead of National Champion? IMO, one sounds like you got a nice consolation prize, and the other sounds like you beat the shit out of the best teams in the country and are the big swinging dick on the mountain top

 

[Jaxbuck]

problem with the old way is there was no way to decipher the true NC if multiple teams are undefeated. And then you have the argument of multiple teams being the champion at seasons end. There’s no freaking way that OSU fans would be happy with ending the season with a win over a PAC 12 champion(not even sure that was,Oregon?). Especially if a Bama team beats Clemson in the Sugar Bowl. Who would be the NC? At least with a playoff,there is a champion based off of playing the top ranked teams. It sucks for fans of teams like UCLA, Indiana, UNC, Texas Tech, and like 95% of CFB teams, but they’re no longer good enough to wear the crown. I don’t even think that expanding will do much. OSU, Bama , Clemson, OU, UGA, and ND have stockpiled a large percentage of the best HS, and do so yearly, they have a built in head start on the rest of the country.

Would you prefer we have 2021 Rose Bowl champion on our trophy, instead of National Champion? IMO, one sounds like you got a nice consolation prize, and the other sounds like you beat the shit out of the best teams in the country and are the big swinging dick on the mountain top

There is no perfect solution. Both avenues have drawbacks.

Now that I have seen them both, I would be willing to live without the NC if it put more emphasis back on the regular season and Rose Bowl. I know the most satisfying season I have had as an adult fan was actually 2018. I was able to take my son to the last stop on the Revenge Tour, then out to a Rose Bowl with another B1G CCG in between. Out in Pasadena we both said that if this was the end of the year (almost) every year we'd be satisfied.

I know not everyone will see it that way but just one guys opinion. I'd leave the MNC disputes to ESPN and southerners. Give me The Game, Indy and Pasadena.

 

[cincibuck]

problem with the old way is there was no way to decipher the true NC if multiple teams are undefeated. And then you have the argument of multiple teams being the champion at seasons end. There’s no freaking way that OSU fans would be happy with ending the season with a win over a PAC 12 champion(not even sure that was,Oregon?). Especially if a Bama team beats Clemson in the Sugar Bowl. Who would be the NC? At least with a playoff,there is a champion based off of playing the top ranked teams. It sucks for fans of teams like UCLA, Indiana, UNC, Texas Tech, and like 95% of CFB teams, but they’re no longer good enough to wear the crown. I don’t even think that expanding will do much. OSU, Bama , Clemson, OU, UGA, and ND have stockpiled a large percentage of the best HS, and do so yearly, they have a built in head start on the rest of the country.

Would you prefer we have 2021 Rose Bowl champion on our trophy, instead of National Champion? IMO, one sounds like you got a nice consolation prize, and the other sounds like you beat the shit out of the best teams in the country and are the big swinging dick on the mountain top

I hear you. I'd go one step forward, get the Big Ten, BTN, and Chicago off their collective asses, and insist on equity in the Rose Bowl pact, home, and home. Or the Playoffs. Four sites N/S/E/W and the semis and CG rotate. I can think of more than one Rose Bowl game that cost the Buckeye's a CG that might have ended differently had the Pac team been trying to play in the Midwest.

 

[Oh8ch]

problem with the old way is there was no way to decipher the true NC if multiple teams are undefeated. And then you have the argument of multiple teams being the champion at seasons end. There’s no freaking way that OSU fans would be happy with ending the season with a win over a PAC 12 champion(not even sure that was,Oregon?). Especially if a Bama team beats Clemson in the Sugar Bowl. Who would be the NC? At least with a playoff,there is a champion based off of playing the top ranked teams. It sucks for fans of teams like UCLA, Indiana, UNC, Texas Tech, and like 95% of CFB teams, but they’re no longer good enough to wear the crown. I don’t even think that expanding will do much. OSU, Bama , Clemson, OU, UGA, and ND have stockpiled a large percentage of the best HS, and do so yearly, they have a built in head start on the rest of the country.

Would you prefer we have 2021 Rose Bowl champion on our trophy, instead of National Champion? IMO, one sounds like you got a nice consolation prize, and the other sounds like you beat the shit out of the best teams in the country and are the big swinging dick on the mountain top

The problem with the new way is that it doesn't identify any "true" champion any more than March Madness or the baseball playoffs. It gives us a tournament champion and makes it easy to pretend they are the best team in the country.

Tournaments are exciting but not worth the damage they have done to the regular season.

We need a thread to discuss the playoffs. Then we can get back to giving Jimmah the attention he deserves.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Then we can get back to giving Jimmah the attention he deserves.

Maybe we could even help find his baseball

 

[AJHawkfan]

All this talk about CCG, expanded playoffs, etc. Why the fuck is it in Harbrau's thread?

 

[Oh8ch]

All this talk about CCG, expanded playoffs, etc. Why the fuck is it in Harbrau's thread?

Good point. This is the last thread where anyone should be talking about playoffs.