All right, prom analogies. For 15 of the last 16 years in which a prom was held, the Buckeyes have fucked the prom queen.
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Fungo Squiggly
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LovelandBuckeye
You never lose to those pricks. Ever. Ever. - UFM
New England prep schools on line 1.
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cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
ldevon1
January 6th, 2021 at 6:53 AM ^
Are you intimating that Persi is not a very good student? I'm confused. If this were the case it would mean Harbaugh does have complete autocracy.
Joined: 09/09/2015
MGoPoints: 15098
In reply to Are you intimating that… by ldevon1
Tunneler
January 6th, 2021 at 9:48 AM ^
I think he's saying that Persi's spot would be taken by a lesser student.
Joined: 08/01/2013
MGoPoints: 10148
In reply to I think he's saying that… by Tunneler
HateSparty
January 6th, 2021 at 10:51 AM ^
Correct. Don't get me wrong, I love the Persi pick up. I believe he will develop with the current coach in place. I think he loves the university too. But, how many times a year do we read about Michigan moving away from talent because they won't qualify? We also rarely hear, but I am confident they exist, that kids don't even bother because they know they won't and are not interested in putting in that work in order to do so. I know there will be some who say it is proven that the standards are not different at Michigan than others, etc. They is unequivocally false, however.
Joined: 12/17/2014
MGoPoints: 13160
In reply to Correct. Don't get me wrong… by HateSparty
tspoon
January 7th, 2021 at 10:54 AM ^
Can we as a board community get in the habit of putting the fine point on the matter that really does exist?
The reality is that our *qualification* standards are the NCAA minimums, no more. The *acceptance* criteria of U-M's Admissions Department is what differs. The U-M administration is unwilling to look the other way when it comes to kids getting waved through fake schools, fake classes, etc.
When we say "Michigan's qualification standards are higher," we invite scoffing from rivals, because it just isn't true. The reality is that it is in the *subjective* part of the recruiting process where our football team is disadvantaged relative to others, precisely because the U-M administration has rarely, if ever, gotten on board with fully supporting the Athletics Department.
For the record, that difference is effectively one-and-the-same with supposedly-higher qualification standards when it comes to our recruiting limitations. It is also how certain coaches who had earned the trust of the administration used to be able to sneak a couple of guys in as "favors." Lloyd was (for a while) very effective at curating this little tidbit of influence ... and it very much mattered. I won't drag players' names through the mud, but some of our best (and best-loved) players in the 90s and 00s were able to be Wolverines directly as a result of that bit of latitude the school afforded the football coach.
Go back and read some of former U-M president James Duderstadt's work (he published a book on it: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1108383.Intercollegiate_Athletics_and_the_American_University) and you'll start to see it. Nerd vs jocks has been a decades-long division in our leadership. The nerds have never given up the keys.
Compare with former OSU president E. Gordon Gee's infamous line (intended to be tongue in cheek, but more than a kernel of truth therein) about his relative lack of power to remove Tressel because of the violations:
"Are you kidding? Let me just be very clear. I am hopeful (Tressel) doesn't dismiss ME!"
___________________________________________________________________
These folks need to listen to five minutes with Desmond Howard. Tell me that guy got into Michigan on the basis of academic ability.
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cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
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Things that got me bloody Chicklets and dings back in the old days of BP: I imagine that some of the problem the school faces is enmeshed with their image. Michigan has long enjoyed a reputation of being one of the premier public universities in the US. Speaking academically, I imagine they see their competition as UC Berkley, Wisconsin, Texas, and North Carolina. They do not take their position lightly or for granted. They have worked long and hard to earn that reputation and to keep it. Historically, they were one of the first public universities to establish an endowment fund (1817 - as in 19th century) with the expressed purpose of allowing them to attract leading scholars in all fields and retain them. They have lobbied the Michigan legislature for support of higher education and the state has long led the rest of the states in support to higher education as a result. Because of their prestige, Michigan is first in line when the hogs are released to feed at the state's funding trough.
In contrast, Ohio's legislature has seldom equaled Michigan's support for higher education and Ohio State's position as the state flagship university has been up and down, especially during Jim Rhodes' governorship. Add to this the fact that Ohio State did not begin to establish an endowment fund until 1985, and while it has grown impressively, it still lags far behind Michigan's.
So what is this leading up to: For the last fifteen years Michigan has had to retire one coach, hire and quickly fire two coaches, and then reach deep into their coffers to hire Harbaugh, setting a record for the amount of compensation for a college head coach. During the same time period, Ohio State refurbished and expanded Ohio Stadium, created world class facilities for most of its non-revenue sports, and paid it off with funds from the athletic department, not the school's general fund. Michigan is in the process of doing the same, but as I understand it, they have not been able to pay off the debt as they go along.
Now they're faced with the prospect of another buy out, another search, another need to match what the highest bidder might offer to a rising star coach. And here's where I think the rub might come in. Harbaugh's salary is one thing, but look at the rest of the football payroll, Don Brown was getting a million, Jay "Crayon Eater" Harbaugh was paid 350 grand to produce receivers who consistently dropped crucial passes. At he same time - and this gets back to the heart of the University of Michigan - the pay scale for one of the premier public schools in the US shows that the highest paid full professors are pulling down $250,000 to actually teach, research, write, and publish. Tell me that doesn't grate. Tell me it isn't a frequent topic of discussion when the academics sit down with the president and the board at the faculty club. Berkeley long ago put the brakes on athletics. Texas lets the oil men have their play pen as long as the money comes from them and not the general fund. Chapel Hill could give a shit about football and if basketball fucks up again with "jocks only" courses there will be hell to pay. Wisconsin manages to get along with lowered standard of expectations. That leaves Michigan in a far different situation than - dare I say, Ohio State - where I'm sure the faculty has its issues with football's place, but where even when COVID wipes out football and basketball revenue, the athletic department has the funds to cover the losses.
In the end, I'm sure Michigan cares far more about retaining its status as a premier public university than in winning a national championship and that means keeping the worker bees in the academic hive happy.
Things that got me bloody Chicklets and dings back in the old days of BP: I imagine that some of the problem the school faces is enmeshed with their image. Michigan has long enjoyed a reputation of being one of the premier public universities in the US. Speaking academically, I imagine they see their competition as UC Berkley, Wisconsin, Texas, and North Carolina. They do not take their position lightly or for granted. They have worked long and hard to earn that reputation and to keep it. Historically, they were one of the first public universities to establish an endowment fund (1817 - as in 19th century) with the expressed purpose of allowing them to attract leading scholars in all fields and retain them. They have lobbied the Michigan legislature for support of higher education and the state has long led the rest of the states in support to higher education as a result. Because of their prestige, Michigan is first in line when the hogs are released to feed at the state's funding trough.
In contrast, Ohio's legislature has seldom equaled Michigan's support for higher education and Ohio State's position as the state flagship university has been up and down, especially during Jim Rhodes' governorship. Add to this the fact that Ohio State did not begin to establish an endowment fund until 1985, and while it has grown impressively, it still lags far behind Michigan's.
So what is this leading up to: For the last fifteen years Michigan has had to retire one coach, hire and quickly fire two coaches, and then reach deep into their coffers to hire Harbaugh, setting a record for the amount of compensation for a college head coach. During the same time period, Ohio State refurbished and expanded Ohio Stadium, created world class facilities for most of its non-revenue sports, and paid it off with funds from the athletic department, not the school's general fund. Michigan is in the process of doing the same, but as I understand it, they have not been able to pay off the debt as they go along.
Now they're faced with the prospect of another buy out, another search, another need to match what the highest bidder might offer to a rising star coach. And here's where I think the rub might come in. Harbaugh's salary is one thing, but look at the rest of the football payroll, Don Brown was getting a million, Jay "Crayon Eater" Harbaugh was paid 350 grand to produce receivers who consistently dropped crucial passes. At he same time - and this gets back to the heart of the University of Michigan - the pay scale for one of the premier public schools in the US shows that the highest paid full professors are pulling down $250,000 to actually teach, research, write, and publish. Tell me that doesn't grate. Tell me it isn't a frequent topic of discussion when the academics sit down with the president and the board at the faculty club. Berkeley long ago put the brakes on athletics. Texas lets the oil men have their play pen as long as the money comes from them and not the general fund. Chapel Hill could give a shit about football and if basketball fucks up again with "jocks only" courses there will be hell to pay. Wisconsin manages to get along with lowered standard of expectations. That leaves Michigan in a far different situation than - dare I say, Ohio State - where I'm sure the faculty has its issues with football's place, but where even when COVID wipes out football and basketball revenue, the athletic department has the funds to cover the losses.
In the end, I'm sure Michigan cares far more about retaining its status as a premier public university than in winning a national championship and that means keeping the worker bees in the academic hive happy.
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