Should semipro/college players be paid, or allowed to sell their stuff? (NIL and Revenue Sharing)

[zincfinger]

I think the NCAA is perfectly entitled to define the contours of its membership requirements. Consequently, it could decide, as a body, to kick its California members out.

That would be an interesting show no matter which way you come down on the question of college players having agents and making substantial income.

 

[Jaxbuck]

That would be an interesting show no matter which way you come down on the question of college players having agents and making substantial income.

The capitalist in me always wins out and I say good for them.

If they can create value for others then they should get paid for that.

 

[lvbuckeye]

You will have boosters willing to pay more for student athletes likenesses/endorsements/names in the south than you know what to do with.

"Come to [insert SEC school here] and we have a guy who will pay you [insert dollar amount here] to endorse his [insert business name here]"

and it will be 100% legal

It's gonna happen everywhere.

 

[lvbuckeye]

It's amazing that this even has to be said. That's the reason it's against the rules in the first place, and it should be so obvious that it doesn't need to be mentioned.

Sadly, it isn't (apparently) and it does.

This does not necessarily mean I'm coming down on one side or the other; but there is no doubt that one of the consequences of this moving forward is a further MASSIVE shift south in the college football center of power.

False, actually. The amateurism rules and "student-athlete" term came about when Walter Byers didn't want to pay worker's comp claims by football players.

 

[lvbuckeye]

Give them a free education and some form of health care after they are done playing just like vets get from the DOD

All other inducements are still eligibility killers

Either that or go to full on semi pro football and drop the pretense

This Cali idea is just bad

So it's okay when Olympic athletes retain their eligibility, even though they are compensated, but not okay for football players?

Let's not forget that Kyler Murray was still eligible despite being payed $1.4 million.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Sure so just put yourself in that person's (booster/business owner) shoes.

What is Johnny Gun's real value to you in endorsing your product?

If it is significantly less than what it takes to land him, then the school/your fandom is asking your business to take that financial hit.

No business is going to do that to an indefinite scale for an indefinite time. It's a question of degree and, in my experience, businesses will quickly gravitate to the low end of the spectrum I don't care who they are.

Johnny Gun's real market value is the key piece to all this and there is only one way to determine that imo; let the free market tell you.

I don’t know that your analysis is in touch with how people truly behave or how much they care. Some Small business owners who are interested in football will gladly pay large sums of money to help “State U” win. I know guys in a few businesses who like to play that game. Dry cleaning business, lotsa cash, convenience store owner, lotsa cash. Somehow that cash gets handed to a kid “caddying” at the country club. And by caddying, I mean kid takes the bag and moves it from the cart to gentleman’s trunk. Business owners gladly do it now for caddying and house sitting. We know this.

So, being able to do this and have the kid’s face be on his flyer, it’s a bonus for the guy already willing to part with the money.

 

[lvbuckeye]

As late as 2014 the NCAA claimed that 24 out of the 53 Power 5 programs made money. We know who picks up the bill at those schools who don't make a profit. If, from that profit, schools have to pay football and basketball players, what's going to happen to non-revenue sport scholies? What are the implications if Title IX remains in force?

Faculties are already aware of school budgets being tapped to keep sports alive, what's going to happen when that tap gets expanded so the Miamis and Bowling Greens of this world increase that stream to include salaries for programs that can't make a profit?

I'm not so naive as to believe that all the pigs get treated equally in the current set up, but what's going to happen when Fields gets more money than Chase Young? What's going to happen when Alabama offers a five star more than LSU does?

Issue of "fairness" aside, I think this will be the end of college sports as we know them.

It's been coming ever since realignment began. Football divisions will be further broken up. The P5 will become the P4 with four 16-school conferences. The G5 will become the G4 and be the rest.

 

[lvbuckeye]

The problem with that is that it doesn't allow the golf or equestrian prodigy the ability to make money off their own endorsements for clubs/saddles (as an example).

So, if I am understanding this law correctly, it is to help the student athlete and it is for all athletes not just football?

I wouldn't think it in the spirit of the law to limit what that Olympic sport athlete could do with his/her own likeness.

Just off the top of my head

Olympic athletes are already compensated and retain their eligibility. Otherwise Katie Ledecky would not have been able to swim for Stanford.

 

[BB73]

Why can't we have faith in the NCAA to handle this?

15 years ago they were wise enough to prohibit freestyle mogul world champion Jeremy Bloom from receiving skiing endorsement money if he wanted to play football at Colorado.

Then in 2006 they were consistent enough to allow Notre Dame safety Tommy Zbikowski to engage in a professional boxing match in Madison Square Garden, and then have an exhibition in South Bend in March, 2007; while still being eligible to be a DB for the Domers in 2006 and 2007.








Sarcasm font

 

[BB73]

Looking at this seriously, I don't see how the NCAA's model can survive this.

My understanding is that the NCAA intends to maintain their current position, meaning that they plan to declare anybody in California (or wherever else that will have a similar law in place) ineligible if they accept endorsement/autograph/personal appearance money and want to play a college sport. I believe that the intent of the law in California is to make such NCAA suspensions/prohibitions actually illegal.

So the difference would not be that athletes making money with such methods would be acting within State and federal laws but in violation of NCAA rules as they are currently, but that the athletes would be making money and if the NCAA tries to suspend them the NCAA would be in violation of California (or wherever) law, and thus would not be able to suspend the athletes.

So the NCAA is playing a giant game of chicken in trying to get states to back down for fear of having the NCAA prohibit its teams from NCAA tournaments, etc., while hoping to not have numerous schools and hundreds of athletes go down this path and sue the NCAA for damages, which I don't think is a fight the NCAA would win. They don't have the clout of the NFL, who has been able to win some court rulings on dubious grounds.

My best guess is that several states will quickly pass laws, some of which may have effective dates earlier than Jan. 1, 2023. Once there are numerous states that are in the same position, the NCAA will be forced to alter its rules in an attempt to stay relevant and retain power. Otherwise a new group could arise which would operate over football and basketball for schools in California and the other states who don't want to have their athletes subject to the NCAA's antiquated procedures and inconsistent rulings.

 

[cincibuck]

Thought 1: The Ohio State Nationwides, The Stnford Googles, The Colorado Coors, The Washington Boeings, The Oregon Nikes, The Alabama Government Subsidies, The Florida Tourists, The Tennessee Dollywoods...

Thought 2: Colleges were threatened by TR Roosevelt in 1906, clean up sports or the government will. The schools could not settle the issues among themselves and decided to create a governing board - the NCAA was thus born out of necessity - the schools could not/would not do it themselves. Now it is politicians tearing apart the NCAA and it is the colleges who will have to invent a regulating authority.

Thought 3: I love me some college football, especially some Buckeye football, but sports makes prostitutes out of Junior Highs, High School,s and Colleges. Maybe now is the time to separate the two. Just think what would happen to inner city schools if full rides were given to kids who can get grades instead of those who can drain threes or run for a thou.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Thought 1: The Ohio State Nationwides, The Stnford Googles, The Colorado Coors, The Washington Boeings, The Oregon Nikes, The Alabama Government Subsidies, The Florida Tourists, The Tennessee Dollywoods...

Thought 2: Colleges were threatened by TR Roosevelt in 1906, clean up sports or the government will. The schools could not settle the issues among themselves and decided to create a governing board - the NCAA was thus born out of necessity - the schools could not/would not do it themselves. Now it is politicians tearing apart the NCAA and it is the colleges who will have to invent a regulating authority.

Thought 3: I love me some college football, especially some Buckeye football, but sports makes prostitutes out of Junior Highs, High School,s and Colleges. Maybe now is the time to separate the two. Just think what would happen to inner city schools if full rides were given to kids who can get grades instead of those who can drain threes or run for a thou.

True about Teddy Roosevelt, but he was mostly concerned about safety. Football players were dying.

 

[cincibuck]

True about Teddy Roosevelt, but he was mostly concerned about safety. Football players were dying.

And part of the NCAA's job description was to create a consistent set of rules for football, rules that would make it a safer game - good by flying wedge, hello forward pass, and ten years of Notre Dame and Michigan pissing and moaning about each others rule interpretations on the shift.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I don’t know that your analysis is in touch with how people truly behave or how much they care. Some Small business owners who are interested in football will gladly pay large sums of money to help “State U” win. I know guys in a few businesses who like to play that game. Dry cleaning business, lotsa cash, convenience store owner, lotsa cash. Somehow that cash gets handed to a kid “caddying” at the country club. And by caddying, I mean kid takes the bag and moves it from the cart to gentleman’s trunk. Business owners gladly do it now for caddying and house sitting. We know this.

So, being able to do this and have the kid’s face be on his flyer, it’s a bonus for the guy already willing to part with the money.

I didn't say they wouldn't do it. I clearly said there is a question to what degree they would be willing to take it.

At the point, whatever it is, that Johnny Gun isn't worth the ask then they will not pay it. Zero doubt in my mind that free market capitalism will work if left alone to work.

Also zero doubt in my mind that the price of Johnny Gun will go down, not up, once it becomes an above the table proposition.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

I didn't say they wouldn't do it. I clearly said there is a question to what degree they would be willing to take it.

At the point, whatever it is, that Johnny Gun isn't worth the ask then they will not pay it. Zero doubt in my mind that free market capitalism will work if left alone to work.

Also zero doubt in my mind that the price of Johnny Gun will go down, not up, once it becomes an above the table proposition.

That may all be true, I don’t know.
What I know is that businessmen (boosters) are quite willing to part with many thousands of dollars each year for their guys. Once it’s an above board deal, I don’t think their wallets will shrink and their support for “State U” will fall. I suspect it will rise slightly. And I can tell you that (the guys I know that like this shit) they aren’t worried about the “accounting”. Also I suspect that guys right now that won’t play the game because it’s “dirty” will now play the game because it’s “clean”. So it seems to me that the overall $ invested will go up significantly. Now that might be spread over a broader group of fellas...