Should Michigan get a shot at the National Championship game?

[WoodyWorshiper]

I think anyone who votes "no" on this can't be in favor of a playoff system. If you're in favor of a playoff, then saturdays game would have meant nothing more than jockeying for a high seed. Let's put it this way, say we would have lost last saturday, got seeded in a different bracket from Michigan in the playoff and ended up matching up with them in the Championship game, would that have been bullshit? We lost to them in the big "Game" but none of that matters because we beat two or three other teams to get another crack at them for all the marbles. To me it's all the same. All I want is for the two best teams to play for the title. Under the current system, we have to rely on what the computers tell us. And when it's all said and done and Michigan comes up ranked #2, then lets bring it on again.

 

[Jeffcat]

for all that say money plays a part in the national championship game let me remind you that the BCS has 3 parts of its system. one is the coaches poll which im sure no coach gives the rats ass about the money the BCS generates. the second is the harris poll is which is dominated by voters other than the media. lastly is the computer polls which is 6 machines making up a third of the voting. the three polls make up a third of the BCS percentage each so MONEY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BCS OUTCOME FOR THE NC. that being said i dont think michigan should get another shot at the NC. i dont think they should get a shot over anybody but i believe any one loss and/or undefeated team in america is more deserving than michigan at the moment and i have already discussed as to why multiple times in other threads.

 

[*OSUBucknut10*]

Unless USC and Florida lose then no way. I'd rather us play UM again than ND (only b/c UM raped ND so it would only be fair) but other than that it would be rediculous to play them again. If we end up playing them again I believe whole heartedly that we would win ever more convincingly this time. The only reason the game was as close as it was it because of stupid calls by the refs. Like the horsecollar bs that is only called every once in a while, or the interference on o'neal, or the lack their of called on their INT, and the 2 fumbles that Datish gave them was a helper. That game could of easily been somewhat of a route.

 

[Miller_Time]

Here's how a broke done the resume's of the top 5 1 loss teams. While I hate Michigan, it looks to me like if USC looses, Michigan deserves to go. But, if USC wins out, I think you have to give them a shot based on the nonconfrence schedule they play and how they did against it (if they win tonight.
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So who is #2? That is the question the entire nation is trying to answer. While the BCS is going to ultimately decide who will get the tile shot, let’s evaluate these teams not on polls and computer points; but on seeing how they did in 6 key areas:

• Quality Road Wins
• Quality Home Wins
• Who they Lost to
• Non-conference Schedule
• Strength of Conference Schedule
• Bad Scares

With that in mind, let's take a look at the top 5 1-loss teams:

• Michigan
  • QUALITY ROAD WINS
  • Beat #6 Notre Dame (10-1) 47 to 21.
    • They don't get much better then this. Michigan went to West Bend and handed it to the Irish, easily the signature win for the season.
  • Beat Penn State 17-10
    • Penn State (8-4) was not the team they were a year ago, but they still had one heck of a defense. Happy Valley is no easy place to play and Michigan walked out with a solid victory. While not a great win, definitely a good one.
  • QUALITY HOME WINS
  • Beat #9 Wisconsin (11-1) 27 to 13
    • Wisconsin is one of the more under-rated teams in the country and their only loss was at Michigan. This win set-up the show down in Columbus and Michigan handled them easily.
  • WHO THEY LOST TO
  • Lost to #1 Ohio State 41 to 38
    • This one was a classic in which Michigan took advantage of 3 2nd half mistakes by the Buckeyes to stay in it. However, in the end the Buckeyes first half lead was too much to over come.
  • Non-conference Schedule
    • Can't knock Michigan here, they played at Notre Dame which is a tough game every year. Other opponents included Vanderbilt, Central Michigan, and Ball St.
  • Strength of Conference Schedule
    • The Big 10 was down after the top tier this year. Michigan played the other top teams, but didn't play mid tier Purdue. Overall, nothing you can knock Michigan for, but not a blood bath either.
  • Bad Scare
  • Beat Ball St. (4-7) 34 to 26
    • This was Michigan’s only real scare in a game they should have had no problems with. Every team has a bad week; so one scare game should not be a negative.
• USC
  • QUALITY ROAD WINS
  • Beat #5 Arkansas (10-1)50-14
    • Turned out to be a great win to start the year. All Arkansas has done since USC dismantled them on their own field is run off 10 straight wins and put them selves in position to win the toughest conference in the nation.
  • QUALITY HOME WINS
  • Beat #19 Nebraska (8-3) 28-10
    • Many felt Nebraska was going to make a statement to the nation at the Coliseum. USC wasn't having any of that as they cruised to a solid victory.
  • Beat Oregon (7-4) 35 to 10
    • A team that ranked at the time, Oregon was heading into USC at a time when the Trojans looked to be vulnerable. USC seemed to turn a corner in that game and made the statement that they were still the team to beat in the Pac-10.
  • Beat #22 California (8-3) 23 to 9
    • USC delivered an impressive defensive showing and ended California's BCS Bowl hopes. If the week before didn't convince people that the USC many expected was back, the win against California should have.
  • WHO THEY LOST TO
  • Lost to Oregon St (7-4) 33 to 31
    • After several mid-season scares, playing down to their opponents finally caught up with the Trojans on the road at Oregon St. Easily the most damaging loss of the contenders. The loss seemed to have awakened the Trojans, but was it too late?
  • Non-conference Schedule
    • This is the strength of USC's resume. Not only have they not been afraid to schedule tough games, they have been able to win them easily. Their biggest test is Saturday against #6 Notre Dame, but their other non-conference foes were: #5 Arkansas & #18 Nebraska. It doesn't get much better then that.
  • Strength of Conference Schedule
    • The Pac-10 is fairly balanced, but other then USC, hasn't proven much outside of the conference. Not what I would consider one of the best conferences in the nation, but not something I'm going to knock too much either.
  • Bad Scares
  • Beat Washington State 28 to 22
    • Their first of 4 games that left you shaking your head. Clearly a game that they played down to their competition and not one where they made a strong case for a National Title shot. This one was on the road.
  • Beat Washington 26 to 20
    • Well many thought the Washington State scare was just that. Then came this one a week later at home. After this one, many weren't sure what to think about USC.
  • Beat Arizona St 28 to 21
    • Does this team have 9 lives? A 3rd straight scare and 2nd straight at home! Not looking good for the Trojans. The scares ended the next week and it officially became a nightmare with the loss to Oregon St. That 4-week stretch is the biggest knock on USC.
• Florida
  • QUALITY ROAD WINS
  • Beat #21 Tennessee (8-3) 21 to 20
    • What a great game early in the year. Florida used this great road win as a springboard to a SEC East Championship and national title game contention.
  • Beat Georgia (7-4) 21 to 14 (Neutral Field)
    • This is not a true road game; it is a neutral site game. Despite Georgia having a down year, "The World's Largest Cocktail Party" is always a battle. This is a rivalry that brings out the best in both teams. Florida did what it was supposed to do in hard fought game.
  • QUALITY HOME WINS
  • Beat #8 LSU (9-2) 23 to 10
    • This is their signature win of the year so far. After an opening TD by LSU, Florida took control of this game and never looked back.
  • WHO THEY LOST TO
  • Lost to #13 Auburn (10-2) 27 to 17
    • Much closer then the 10-point margin will show. Florida’s offense was shut down on the road in the second half and Auburn was able to pull off the win is a very good game.
  • Non-conference Schedule
    • This could end up being the fatal downfall for the Gators. They usually hang their non-conference schedule on their end of season battle with in-state rival Florida State. Unfortunately for the Gators, FSU is not going to boost anyone’s strength of schedule this year. When you pad the rest of your non-conference schedule with Southern Mississippi, Central Florida, & Western Carolina you don't have anything to fall back on if Florida State has an off year.
  • Strength of Conference Schedule
    • As much of a negative their non-conference schedule is, their conference is simply the toughest in the nation. This conference is a blood bath to get through, and to only have 1 loss is a solid accomplishment. If they can win the conference title against Arkansas it will be the best accomplishment on their resume.
  • Bad Scares
  • Beat South Carolina (6-5) 17 to 16
    • When it takes 3 blocked kicks to win at home, it's not only a scare; it's as damaging of a win as you can have. This win is hurting Florida in the minds of many voters as much as the loss is. Spurrier may come back to haunt Florida after all.
• Arkansas
  • QUALITY ROAD WINS
  • Beat #13 Auburn (10-2) 27 to 10
    • This one was Arkansas’ coming out party, only no one seemed to truly believe it at the time. A dominating performance against a team that at the time was in contention for the National Title. This one went a long way to helping reverse the harm that was done at home against USC.
  • QUALITY HOME WINS
  • Beat #21 Tennessee (8-3) 31 to 14
    • Another test, and another convincing victory. Arkansas silenced many critics with a dominating win over a very good Tennessee team. With 2 of their biggest tests left for the last 2 weeks, if they keep winning, the quality wins will continue to grow.
  • WHO THEY LOST TO
  • Lost to #2 USC (9-1) 50-14
    • What is one teams impressive win, is another’s damaging defeat. This just wasn't a loss; this was a beat down in your own backyard. Sure, it was early in the season with a different starting QB, but 50-14! That is not easily forgotten.
  • Non-conference Schedule
    • Arkansas took the same route as many national powers, took one tough non-conference game and loaded up with cupcakes on the rest. The problem for them is that they failed to win the legitimate game they scheduled, and not only did they not win, they got beat in a dominating fashion. In the games against Utah St, SE Missouri St, and Louisiana Monroe they did what they were supposed to do, but they are missing that signature non-conference win that USC would have provided.
  • Strength of Conference Schedule
    • While they don't have a signature win in their non-conference schedule, their conference is simply the toughest in the nation. This conference is a blood bath to get through, and they are currently unbeaten in conference play. If they can win out they will add wins against LSU and Florida making their conference wins the best around.
  • Bad Scares
  • Beat Vanderbilt (4-8) 21 to 19
    • Vandy used a 4th quarter score to draw within 2 but that is the best they could do. An early season scare before they were on the national radar.
  • Beat Alabama (6-6) 24 to 23
    • An overtime thriller in which the Razorbacks survived on a missed extra-point by Alabama. The kicking troubles of Alabama enabled Arkansas to survive to move on and shock Auburn the next week in a game that put them on the National radar.
• Notre Dame
  • QUALITY ROAD WINS
  • Beat #15 Georgia Tech (9-2) 14 to 10
    • What was originally thought to be a bad scare has turned into a quality road win for the Irish. The Yellow Jacket’s defense has been tough all year but the Irish were able to do just enough to get the win. They will need to add a huge win at USC if they want to have any chance at all.
  • QUALITY HOME WINS
  • Beat Penn St (8-4) 41 to 17
    • Scored at will against a very good Penn St defense. This is a nice win, but the fact that this is their best home win speaks volumes about the strength of their schedule.
  • WHO THEY LOST TO
  • Lost to #3 Michigan (11-1) 47 to 21
    • Talk about taking it on the chin at home, the Irish got taken to woodshed by the Wolverines. Michigan took control of the game early and never let go of it. The championship homes of the Irish took a huge blow on that day.
  • Overall Strength of Schedule
    • Notre Dame does not have a conference affiliation so we will look at their entire schedule. Their top games were Michigan, Georgia Tech, and Penn State. After that, not much to hang their hat on. A weak schedule is not going to help them out in the end.
  • Bad Scares
  • Beat Michigan St (4-8) 40-37
    • Down 37 to 21 heading into the 4th quarter, Notre Dame saved their season with a remarkable comeback against the Spartans on the road. The only downfall to this great comeback is what were they doing down that much to begin with? Fact is a bad football team dominated them for 3 quarters. Doesn't exactly impress you does it.
  • Beat UCLA (6-5) 20 to 17
    • Well the one thing you can say is this team never gives up. The Irish looked to be in bad shape late against the Bruins only to mount another comeback, scoring the go a head TD with only 27 seconds left. Being taken to the wire against an average Pac 10 team isn't exactly impressive either.

So now that we have looked at what each team brings to the table so far this year, let’s rank each of them against each other in each of the 6 categories. I will leave Notre Dame out of the conference and non-conference schedule rankings since they are the only one that does not play in a conference.

? QUALITY ROAD WINS
1.Michigan – To go to South Bend and take it to the Irish the way they did was very impressive. Add in the Happy Valley win and they get the top ranking in this category.
2.Arkansas – When they played Auburn it was the Tigers in the national title discussion, not Arkansas. When it was over Arkansas had jumped onto the national radar and they haven’t left yet.
3.USC – Many may question why I give the nod here to Arkansas over USC’s win against the very same Razorbacks. The answer is simple, USC did what they were expected to do, Arkansas did what no one gave them a chance to do.
4.Florida – Pulling a tough win out the way they did at Tennessee showed a lot of character. Unfortunately for the Gators the Vols have dropped 2 other games since then which makes the win look less impressive.
5.Notre Dame – Georgia Tech has a nice team, but when that is your best road win your not going to get many style points from it. A win at USC this Saturday can change all of that.
? QUALITY HOME WINS
1.USC – No team has done more at home to help build their national title case then the Trojans, and this is before their showdown with Notre Dame this Saturday at the Coliseum. With wins over Nebraska, California, and Oregon already, they are getting it done in the quality win department.
2.Florida - Giving a slight edge to Florida (for the LSU win) over Michigan (for the Wisconsin win). This was a huge test for Florida in a game where many gave the edge to LSU. Not only did they win, they left no doubt.
3.Michigan – Could easily be #2, beating Wisconsin in impressive fashion is a nice win for any program. This set-up the classic in Columbus last weekend.
4.Arkansas – Any doubters they had left were silenced when they destroyed Tennessee. But just like Florida’s win at Tennessee, the fact they have 3 losses takes some of the shine off of the win. A win against LSU will help them out a lot in this category.
5.Notre Dame – Penn State was their best home win, that kind of says it all.

? WHO THEY LOST TO
1.Michigan – When your only loss is on the road to the #1 team in the nation, that is about as good of a loss as you can get. If Michigan gets their re-match, it will be because of how they looked in this loss.
2.Florida – A road loss to a very good Auburn team is nothing to hang your head about. Compared to some of the other losses, this looks very good.
3.Notre Dame – There is a big drop from the Florida loss to this one. Notre Dame got punched in the mouth on their home field. It was against an elite team in Michigan, but it’s that loss that makes it near impossible for them to play for the title.
4.Arkansas – It was hard not to put them last when they got beat by 36 points in their own backyard. This was an awful loss, and will be hard to recover from.
5.USC – Bottom line, they should not have lost that game. I know it was close and on the road, but you must win those types of games. The amount of quality wins they have may be enough to put them over the top, but this loss put a bad taste is the mouth of many.
? Non-conference Schedule
1.USC – This one is not even close. No cupcakes here. All 3 teams are currently in the top 25. If they get the title shot, it will be because of their non-conference schedule.
2.Michigan – Their road game against Notre Dame the best non-conference road wins out of the 4.
3.Arkansas – OK, I’ll give them credit for scheduling USC, next time they might want to show up.
4.Florida – Florida St is killing them in this department. They simply scheduled no one else besides them.

? Strength of Conference Schedule
1.Florida - The SEC is simply the best conference in the nation. I give the edge to Florida over Arkansas due to Georgia & Kentucky being a tougher road then Ol’ Miss & Mississippi State.
2.Arkansas – See above
3.Michigan – The Big 10 may be top heavy, but the top is very good.
4.USC – USC is clearly the top team in the conference. While there some good teams in the Pac-10, outside of USC there are no other teams that jump off the page at you as being special.

• Bad Scares

1.Michigan – One bad game against Ball St. was all they had along the way. Other then that they were pretty consistent throughout the year.
2.Arkansas – Arkansas took their scares early in the year and has since hit stride. It will be the loss for them that hang in people’s minds, but these close calls can’t help.
3.Florida – Well they should have lost the South Carolina game, but somehow pulled it out. The rest of the their wins they had in control throughout the season.
4.USC – Three weeks in a row teams that should not have been in the game against USC ended up taking them to the wire. USC held on in all three but the struggles leave many questioning if this team is for real. If they could have made it 4 scares in a row they could have avoided all this one loss talk.
5.Notre Dame – The comebacks were great to watch, but they should not have been down to either team like that to begin with. Both were very poor games for Notre Dame.

So after all of this, who is #2? Well that is what I will let you decide for yourself. You can see what they bring to the table and I have given you my opinion on how they stack up against each other. How you value the information is what makes this discussion so interesting. One thing is for certain, it will be very interesting to see how this all works out over the next 2 weeks.

 

[OregonBuckeye]

So it isn't fair to assume Michigan is better than UF or SC just because they had a "better" loss, but it is fair to exclude them without consideration just because their loss was to the best team while the UF and SC lost to lesser teams?

I'm not saying, "We must assume Michigan is the second best team because they had the better loss"

I am saying, "We must use the system they put in place to determine the #2 team. If the computer polls and the human polls think Michigan is #2, then we shouldn't purposefully exclude them in favor of the #3 team."

I'm saying that voters shouldn't say, "I really think Michigan is the #2 team in the country, but I don't want a rematch so I'll vote them lower."

Isn't the whole point to find out who the best team is? We've already established scUM isn't by beating them but we haven't played USC or Florida. When the season and bowl games are over people can vote scUM #2 but they do not deserve another shot to prove they're the best team.

 

[BB73]

I believe that 1-loss USC and 1-loss Florida are better choices as BCS #2 than TSUN, but that TSUN deserved to be ahead of 1-loss Arkansas and 1-loss ND.

 

[PrincetonBuckeye]

NO WAY!!! They could beat us the first time....try again next year!

 

[WolverineTX]

With the looming possibility of a Notre Dame-Michigan Rose Bowl, I think a lot of our fans who've been demanding a rematch are starting to understand how Buckeye faithful have felt over the last week. It would be rather ironic if we indeed received a rematch, just not the one most wanted.

Personally I'd like to see LSU and Michigan square off, not only because it'd make for a great game, but we've never faced each other.

 

[sandgk]

With the looming possibility of a Notre Dame-Michigan Rose Bowl, I think a lot of our fans who've been demanding a rematch are starting to understand how Buckeye faithful have felt over the last week. It would be rather ironic if we indeed received a rematch, just not the one most wanted.

Personally I'd like to see LSU and Michigan square off, not only because it'd make for a great game, but we've never faced each other.

Personally, I think it would behove ND to take the smaller pay-out, and go to a non-BCS bowl. In that way they can at least break their duck in Bowl games which now runs back to '94.

Certainly they should not embrace an ND-TSUN Rose Bowl match-up, as a matter of principle.

And, yes LSU-TSUN would be an extremely entertaining game.