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S Vonn Bell (All B1G, All-American, National Champion, Cincinnati Bengals)

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What' more important? Scoring defense or pass defense? Do I need to remind you that passing yards don't win games?
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So you're just going to skip over the bulk of my post because it doesn't fit with your argument. Neat. I guess you won't allow that to be discussed.

Ok, let's change the subject and see if you'll actually engage me on this topic.

QB - Season Avg - OSU yds - Difference

Cook............. 203 ... 304 .... +101
Gardner......... 252 ... 451 .... +199
NWduo.......... 227 ... 337 .... +110
Stave........... 200 ... 295 .... +95
Ruddock........ 200 ... 245 .... +45
Cal............... 331 ... 371 .... +40 (60 pts, 591 yds by OSU O)
Scheelhaase... 287 ... 288 ... +01 (52 pts, 608 yds bv OSU O)
Penn State..... 259 ... 237 ... -18 (63 pts, 686 yds by OSU O)

Buffalo, SDSU, FAMU and Purdue are not relevant opponents. NW, Stave, Ruddock should have been easier matchups that would require qualifiers about how mediocre their passing attacks are.

The only competent passing attacks that didn't see huge increases in their passing games came against opponents with abysmal defenses that couldn't tackle an OSU ball carrier in a phone booth.
Obviously, the bottom line has to be scoring defense. Keeping people out of the end zone is way more meaningful than giving up passing yards.
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Not when you play teams that are atrocious at scoring the football. That is a game changer for the bottom line.

It's why Mattison's vaunted defense got torched by a dreadful Bollman offense. Their defense was not good but they played a season full of stiffs that couldn't score. Look around the league and the lofty scoring defenses for the league's "Best" defenses. This pattern happens every year (or at least since the league stopped fielding good offenses ... or teams).

Wisconsin is not the 5th best defense in the land. OSU isn't close to being a top-25 defense.
Historically, we've seen huge passing games that yield nothing but stats.
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Historically we've seen OSU defenses that can tackle. Recognize a screen. Maintain basic coverage responsibilities. Historically has no relevance to what was on the field this year.
MSU didn't beat us by throwing the ball.
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That's laughable but then you love grabbing things out of your hat.

Cook threw 40 times for 301 yds 3 TDs & 1 INT.

They took a 17 pt lead on 3 drives with a combined 11 yds rushing:

57 yds total: 07 yds rushing
68 yds total: -4 yds rushing
66 yds total: 07 yds rushing

They came back with a balanced drive for a FG:

47 yds total: 25 yds rushing (1 play)

and iced the game largely on the ground:

61 yds total: 51 yds rushing

Yeah, clearly they didn't beat OSU passing the ball :lol:
We lost because they had a great run defense.
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As is that. They ran all over MSU to come back from a 17 pt deficit.
They stopped the run when the game was on the line.
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Thanks in large part due to:

1) The passing game breaking down entirely from a combo of inconsistent passing, bad catching and great dbs. If either of the first 2 executed at an adequate level they win the game despite the great dbs.

2) Abandoning Hyde when the game was on the line, particularly with 2 tries to get 2 yds. Better skip the back who has gained 2+ every time and go with the gamebreaker who had many 0 or negative carries.

Arguing that Sparty's run defense was great is like referencing Powell's clutch play as a rebuttal to OSU's defensive woes in AA.
 
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Taosman said:
What' more important? Scoring defense or pass defense? Do I need to remind you that passing yards don't win games?
Obviously, the bottom line has to be scoring defense. Keeping people out of the end zone is way more meaningful than giving up passing yards. Historically, we've seen huge passing games that yield nothing but stats. MSU didn't beat us by throwing the ball. We lost because they had a great run defense. They stopped the run when the game was on the line.
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Holy shit.

Just for the record OSU had 273 yards rushing in that game and MSU scored 3 of their 4 TD's via the pass.
 
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Taosman said:
What' more important? Scoring defense or pass defense? Do I need to remind you that passing yards don't win games?
Obviously, the bottom line has to be scoring defense. Keeping people out of the end zone is way more meaningful than giving up passing yards. Historically, we've seen huge passing games that yield nothing but stats. MSU didn't beat us by throwing the ball. We lost because they had a great run defense. They stopped the run when the game was on the line.
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I'm going to look for the article but I read somewhere that if Clemson scores 3 points this will be the worst scoring defense in the history of Ohio State football.
 
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Tlangs said:
I'm going to look for the article but I read somewhere that if Clemson scores 3 points this will be the worst scoring defense in the history of Ohio State football.
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so-youre-telling-me-theres-a-chance.jpg
 
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There's also this interesting statistic, gleaned off the 11W blog
http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2013/12/12/5203154/defensive-drive-efficiency-college-football
Of the 10 BCS bowl teams, Ohio State gives up quite a few points per possession. Especially when you factor in how otherwise anemic the offenses we faced were.
While Auburn looks worse, I will say the SEC has some great offenses of late (seems to have flipped from their trademark excellent defenses for some reason)

(Offhand, the Stanford statistic is interesting... says a lot about the power of ESPiN, Gilmore, and Palmer's "Stanford Football" propaganda)
 
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I ask this with the full understanding that I might be galactically wrong, but after watching Pitt Brown getting turned around, not reacting to the ball, and covering grass instead of receivers, why did it take 13 games to get Vonn Bell into the lineup? If he got turned around, didn't react, or if he covered grass, at least he had the excuse of being a true frosh. As a 5 star guy, he was supposed to be able to step in and play right away. Can he? I don't know, but I would have liked to have seen him try much earlier in the season. As it is, thank you Pitt for intercepting Hackenburg in the first qtr, and also for... uh, well, thanks.

This reminds me of that terrible enigma of 2011: Braxton Milller or Joe Bauserman. Lord have mercy.
 
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If he got turned around, didn't react, or if he covered grass, at least he had the excuse of being a true frosh.
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He did against IU. The results weren't pretty.
As a 5 star guy, he was supposed to be able to step in and play right away.
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In unfair recruitnik land? Yes. In the real world? No.

It means he has a much better chance to do so than the average recruit.
 
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Bill Lucas said:
You should look at the number of 5 star recruits over a period of time that have stepped right in and played right away. The results might surprise you.
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And the ones that have played right away, have played pretty bad and got manhandled. College is a different beast then playing HS and you're the only elite player or one of few even on really good teams in the nation(st. Thomas aquinas, south lake carrol, Miami central, Miami booker t Washington, moeller, jenks, don bosco prep, etc)
 
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I will refer you all to my preface about being galactically wrong.

Still, the thing that is bothering me is do you play experienced incompetence or inexperienced incompetence? Once you know what your senior is going to give you, what is the downside of getting a similar result from a young guy? Maybe - by getting some experience, he might be able to deliver a lesser degree of incompetence, or heck, might be able to be competent.

Pitt Brown was a 4-5 star guy - so obviously, I do understand the precarious nature of recruiting rankings. Those stars indicate whether people think you have the ability to do it. At some point, you get on the field and you can do it or you can't. What I am saying is that I don't know what Bell can or can't do. I have a better idea of that with Pitt.
 
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