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- Thread starter heisman
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I do not agree with this at all. If Ohio State beats SEC teams in bowls then this all goes away. Period. If Ohio State were .500 vs SEC teams in this decade - say Tress wins the '02 Outback Bowl and the '08 National Championship Game vs LSU - then OSU would be 6-2 in bowls with TWO national titles since 2001. If Ohio State had beaten both Florida AND LSU, then all of sudden we're talking '06-'07 Ohio State is among the greatest dynasties all time, Jim Tressel is the greatest coach in the history of ever, and the SEC stinks because their top teams can't beat Ohio State in bowls.Steve19;1525987; said:
Perception is reality, and the perception of Ohio State has nothing to do with whether or not Michigan, specifically, is competitive.
The "we need a strong Michigan program" argument is completely overblown. What we need are two or three other strong teams. Any two or three teams will do. Penn State and Michigan State can fill the void for a decade. It wasn't a problem in the 60s and it won't be a problem now. Let me use the Pac 10 as an example here ... I mean, does anyone really care that UCLA has been non-competitive for the past 10 years? USC doesn't need UCLA to be good to validate their record. Cal and Oregon are doing just fine playing 'heels' to USCs 'face.'
Nobody downgraded the Miami Hurricanes for dominating a weak Big East. Nobody downgraded Florida State for dominating a soft ACC, and nobody downgrades Southern Cal because no other team in the Pac 10 has risen to the challenge. Despite the flashy offenses of Missouri and Kansas and Texas Tech, the Big XII has essentially been a two team league for the past five years.
Michigan is irrelevant to Ohio State's fortunes.
If Ohio State beats Southern Cal, then beats a SEC team in a bowl, all the talk stops. As Al Davis would say, "Just win, baby."
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jwinslow;1525781; said:
Would you rather stay at UC which you have taken to an Orange Bowl or take over a program with lack of talent and possible NCAA sanctions. The thing about UM before RichRod took over was the drop off of talent in the previous few years. With these allegations I would like to see what kind of recruiting class he gets this year.
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martinss01
blissfully stupid
Oh8ch;1526017; said:
gotta disagree with you there oh8ch. no player should be directly punished in the depth chart for missing voluntary workouts. thats the whole reason the coaching staff isn't permitted to be involved.
and there being significant consiquences for players who fail to attend. including but not limited to significantly more severe workouts as punishment.
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zincfinger
Gert Frobe-approved
That's my understanding as well, but these things seem to me to be very difficult to conclusively demonstrate. For example, having a QC coach at the "voluntary" practice seems pretty cut-and-dried on the surface. But, and I'm purely spit-balling here, suppose Nick Sheridan came forward and said, "Yeah, a QC coach attended a couple voluntary practices, but only because I asked him, informally and purely as a personal favor, to stop by, observe a couple reps, and give me some feedback on my throwing motion." Putting aside the jokes on what a QC coach would say about Sheridan's throwing motion, would NCAA rules clearly forbid a coach from granting that request? I have no idea. And if Rodriguez had previously "suggested" to Sheridan that he make that request, would anyone be able to prove it?Jaxbuck;1525691; said:
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cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
Dryden;1526027; said:
After first of all pointing out that the Big 10 has three traditional powers: Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State, i.e. three schools with stadiums big enough to place them in the top tier of attendance (Butts = Money + TV, Money + TV = Recruiting Budget + Facilities, Rct Bud + Fac + Tradition = Championships, Championships + Tradition = Fan Base That Travels, FBTT + Championships = Big Bowl Bid.)
The Pac 10 has one such program and even that program has trouble getting butts into seats. The Big 12 has two: Texas and Oklahoma, The ACC and Big East combined have 1. The SEC has six: Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn.
When you take Michigan out of the picture the Big 10 begins to look more like the ACC and just as we yell and scream about any ACC/Big East team that qualifies for a BCS Bowl, you can bet that fans of other conferences will be bitching up a storm when Ohio State or Penn State gets a top tier bowl by beating a 7 and 5 Michigan team. "Just who TF did they beat? Akron, Troy, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Illinois... when did they play anybody good?"
If you think I'm exaggerating just go back to the November - December postings for the last several years (including some of my own) concerning SOS and how Notre Dame, Big East or ACC teams got into key bowl games.
Michigan State, Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota and Purdue don't have a 100K stadium, have never sustained a program that wins or competes for the conference championship across a decade, much less two decades and therefore don't generate TV interest, don't bring in the same revenue levels, don't "carry" Indiana and Northwestern financially the way OSU, Michigan and Penn State can and have.
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martinss01
blissfully stupid
zincfinger;1526068; said:
my understanding is that this would also be a rules violation. otherwise every single voluntary practice at every school would have atleast 1 coach in attendance at all times.
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goblue15
Heisman
The problem I have is if/when Rich gets this turned around he will bolt for another job if it comes calling. Rich is a simple guy like people have said, he just wants to coach football. The media and certain people in the athletic department won't let him do that. People say winning will cure everything, but it won't in this instance.
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I really don't much care for what fans elsewhere think. 90% of them are mouth-breathing idiots that will just parrot what they heard from their local radio analysts or what they saw on TV.cincibuck;1526069; said:
In 2006 Ohio State beat the defending national champion Longhorns on the road AND beat an 11-0 Michigan squad, yet there were still people asking, "Who did Ohio State beat? Texas was rebuilding with a frosh QB and Michigan beat all the same bad conference teams Ohio State did! The Big Ten is down!!11!"
In 2007 Ohio State played a pretty awful schedule thanks to Washington being in the toilet, but even dropping one to Illinois didn't bar entry to the national title game.
So who cares what other people think? Win and you're in.
Again, what's the correlation between the teams people often cite as being consistently excellent for long periods of time: the 'Canes of the 80s, the 'Noles of the 90s, the Trojans of the 00s? They won high profile games, and specifically bowl games. The 'Canes and Trojans do not play in front of 100,000+ home crowds every week, they do not play any games on the road in their conference in front of crowds that large, and frankly they probably won't even play in front of home crowds over 30,000 if they're really really bad, given their fair-weather fan bases.
Yet none of this matters in the perception of their title-worthiness at any particular moment in time. If the Big East is terrible and Miami is on probation in the late-90s, yet Miami has the clear-cut best team in the country emerge in 2001, or 2002, then nothing will stop their coronation short of a loss. The EXACT same thing can be said for Southern Cal. What conference they're in and who their strongest in-conference opponent is is completely irrelevant if they're hanging 40 on all-comers, including their previous seasons' bowl opponent.
It simply does not make a lick of difference how strong or weak a conference is perceived to be if a team can back up their record OOC and in bowls. Ohio State has not done that the past two-and-a-half seasons. The fortunes of the Michigan football program are unrelated to the perception people have of Ohio State. We reap what we sow, and the seeds Ohio State has sown say OSU can't beat a Top-5 team. Do it, and do it with authority, and the critics will be silenced.
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localyokel
Allergic to Kool-Aid
See DickRod.
See DickRod Squirm.
See Jane.
See Jane Press Record.
See Jane Record DickRod Squirming.
Today
On ESPN
At 11:00 AM.
See Jane Press Play.
See Jane Laugh
Again and Again and Again.
See DickRod Squirm.
See Jane.
See Jane Press Record.
See Jane Record DickRod Squirming.
Today
On ESPN
At 11:00 AM.
See Jane Press Play.
See Jane Laugh
Again and Again and Again.
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If the last 10 years of the BCS taught me anything, it's that the media is more impressed with 42-7 victories over bad teams than 14-9 victories over good ones.
Romp all over a "name brand" and you're the best team in the country. It honestly does not matter if any of those name brands had pulses.
Romp all over a "name brand" and you're the best team in the country. It honestly does not matter if any of those name brands had pulses.
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zincfinger
Gert Frobe-approved
It's certainly possible (to the best of my knowledge) that the NCAA rules clearly state that no member of the coaching staff (aside from a physical trainer) is allowed to watch any player "practice" during the summer under any conditions whatsoever. Although the "otherwise" argument doesn't seem convincing to me that this is the case. What about the case where a member of the coaching staff has a son on the football team? Is that man not allowed to throw the ball around with his son during the summer? And if his son wants to have a couple buddies over for the throw-around, does that make it contrary to NCAA rules? Again, I don't know. My only point is that things like this are fairly difficult to define and therefore difficult to enforce, and that there are likely gray areas. And going back to the comment that "there would always be a coach in attendance", I'm not so sure about that. I suspect there would be some coaching staffs who wanted to push the envelope, and some who preferred not to push the envelope for what would likely be minimal gain.martinss01;1526071; said:
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