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Reds Tidbits (2012 Season)

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good god. good in the short term (anytime a small market club can keep their own is good), but what the hell are they planning on putting around him!?!?

I'd guess this will be an anchor at some point and he'll be traded in about 5 years... ?

As a Brewers fan, I'm glad they didn't give Prince 200+M, if I was a Reds fan, I'd wish they never gave Votto 200+M.

yikes.

Then again, with Dusty as your manager, you'll need all the bats you can get since you won't have any arms left to put on the mound.
 
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I agree somewhat.

As a fan I am obviously glad Votto will be a Red for a long time.

OTOH 22.5 MM a year on average is going to be 20-30% of payroll no matter what. That's no small thing.

At the end of the day though when I stop and think about it, you just have to say "fuck it" and enjoy.

What's the worst that happens? The team sucks balls for an extended period of time? God knows none of us would know how to handle that with all the deep playoff runs and WS appearances we've grown so accustomed to these last 30 years or so.
 
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http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2012/04/joey-votto-reds-contract-extension/1

The Cincinnati Reds slugger on Monday agreed to a 10-year, $225 million contract extension, according to a person familiar with the deal but not authorized to speak publicly about them because the deal is not finalized. Votto's extension ties him to the Reds through 2023 and continues a wild run of baseball spending.

In agreeing to the fourth-largest deal in baseball history, Votto became the third first baseman in four months to top the $200 million mark. Albert Pujols agreed to a 10-year, $240 million contract with the Los Angeles Angels in January, and Prince Fielder followed with a nine-year, $213 million pact with the Detroit Tigers in January. Before this off-season, only Alex Rodriguez, whose current 10-year deal is worth $277 million, had cracked the $200 million barrier.
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Fuck me running.

I still can't believe this.

These fucktards might actually be good for the next 3-4 years.

What does one do all summer if his baseball team isn't shitty?
 
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Jaxbuck;2136067; said:
Fuck me running.

I still can't believe this.

These fucktards might actually be good for the next 3-4 years.

What does one do all summer if his baseball team isn't shitty?
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I'm not so sure. There is still a cripple at 3B, an unkown at SS, a 2B who likely won't be back next year, LF is awful, catcher is an unkown, the center fielder couldn't hit the ball if he used a door as a bat, and noodle arm Arroyo is still in the pitching rotation (let's not forget Homer, and I don't think Cueto will duplicate last year). On top of that, no closer.

Honestly, I see this as a .500 team and no one who will step up and fill the huge hole at 3B, LF, and soon 2B. Catcher and SS might be ok, but still too early to tell.

I hope I am wrong, but I am not as optimistic as Jax (which is rather alarming).
 
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BuckStocksHere;2136038; said:
good god. good in the short term (anytime a small market club can keep their own is good), but what the hell are they planning on putting around him!?!?

I'd guess this will be an anchor at some point and he'll be traded in about 5 years... ?

As a Brewers fan, I'm glad they didn't give Prince 200+M, if I was a Reds fan, I'd wish they never gave Votto 200+M.

yikes.

Then again, with Dusty as your manager, you'll need all the bats you can get since you won't have any arms left to put on the mound.
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I'm perfectly fine with the deal, regardless of the money implications. So what if he's 25-30% of the payroll? Given the Reds track record, I don't trust them to find a better use for the money. I don't trust them to find a way to spend $22.5 million a year in a way that replaces his production thru one guy or even a combination of guys.

Besides, this move isn't about what the team is like in 8, 10, or 12 years. Going into this year the team had a limited window to try to be a contender. Many felt it would be two years because everybody presumed that Votto would be gone after that. Now they've extended that window to perhaps anywhere from 4-7 years. To accomplish that they had to give him a contract that will overpay him in his final years. That is cost of doing business for a small-market team with aspirations. When that window closes, it's back to the Reds being what they were for the last 15 years or so. I'm OK with that. I'd rather see the Reds burn bright for short periods of time than see them trying to sell us a bill of goods by saying that not shelling out the money to retain their best players will somehow allow them to someday create an efficient, perpetually sustainable small-market contender.
 
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scott91575;2136073; said:
I'm not so sure. There is still a cripple at 3B, an unkown at SS, a 2B who likely won't be back next year, LF is awful, catcher is an unkown, the center fielder couldn't hit the ball if he used a door as a bat, and noodle arm Arroyo is still in the pitching rotation (let's not forget Homer, and I don't think Cueto will duplicate last year). On top of that, no closer.

Honestly, I see this as a .500 team and no one who will step up and fill the huge hole at 3B, LF, and soon 2B. Catcher and SS might be ok, but still too early to tell.

I hope I am wrong, but I am not as optimistic as Jax (which is rather alarming).
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Look at it this way;

  • Marshall is better than anyone we had in the pen last year
  • Latos is an upgrade to the rotation
  • Votto and Bruce are a nice foundation no matter what else happens with position players
  • SS was a black hole of suck last year, I'll take my chances with Cozart.
  • Ditto Mesoraco except C was pretty good overall
  • I'll give you CF, he sucks something fierce
  • LF is most likely MLB average, not awful
  • Phillips pisses me off to no end but he isn't exactly chopped liver, contract or no.
  • Maybe they fuck up and do something right with Chapman
  • The minors are still producing
  • Two dudes named Albert and Prince aren't in the NL Central anymore.


Overall I am optam....optimys....optimistery...optimistic. Fuck it, what's the worst that happens? They suck again?
 
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Anybody else feeling really good about Frazier coming along? Guy seems to be able to play a couple of different positions and he's hitting the cover off at the moment. Maybe long term he could be the 3B. To me, thats jackpot. If he can come in and take Rolen's spot for the long haul the Reds have one of the best infields in the majors, and certainly one of the younger ones with serious talent.


The outfield still scares the crap out of me and of course, there's Dusty.


Glad Votto is locked in though!
 
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An interesting passage from a Fangraphs blog post:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/joey-vottos-massive-extension-changes-the-game/

What we?re seeing could be described as inflation, but it?s not upward price adjustments in the traditional form. Pujols, Fielder, Reyes, Votto, Kemp, and Zimmerman all landed contracts in excess of $100 million this winter, but in each situation, the surprising number wasn?t the AAV but the amount of guaranteed years on the back end. The $24M AAV for Pujols and $23.8M AAV for Fielder don?t even rank in the top five in baseball history, but they took slightly lower annual paychecks in order to get deals that would keep the money flowing for essentially the rest of their careers. Now Votto has done the same thing, taking a deal that pays him just slightly more per season than Carl Crawford, but basically ensures that this is the last contract he will ever have to negotiate.

And, perhaps this is exactly what we should expect as a reaction to potential new revenue sources opening up for MLB franchises. These TV deals that are being signed don?t come with huge lump sum payments, so teams don?t have buckets of cash burning holes in their pockets. What they do have, or may expect to have in the next few years, is a guaranteed revenue source that will allow them to be in a strong financial position for the next couple of decades. And now, with every team looking to see when they can get in on this upwards adjustment in TV money, it?s become an arms race to lock in talent at current market prices for as long as possible, and getting these deals done by guaranteeing parts of the future expected revenue pie.

This deal for Votto signifies that this trend is not going away any time soon. The Reds aren?t a big market, high payroll franchise and their television contract reportedly is only paying them ~$10 million per year at the moment, but they know a renegotiation of that price is going to come in three to four years, and if current trends persist, they?re going to be able to get a significant hike on their next contract. That rate increase will come along just in time to finance the back end of Votto?s deal, and I?d imagine that knowledge played a huge role in convincing them to guarantee Votto current market premium dollars for years when he likely won?t be earning premium dollars on the field.
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As for the first bolded portion, I want to add this bit from John Fay before commenting:

John Fay ‏ @johnfayman

A big reason Votto's close to signing as extension? "I'm about to sign a huge deal, John, and you're the only media I have answer to." #reds
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Combine the fact that Votto seems to loathe the whole contract progress with the fact that he seems to enjoy the fact that there is very little media scrutiny in this town versus other markets, and I can see why Votto would be inclined to get an extension out of the way so far in advance of hitting the open market. Well, and the $225 million must be pretty nice too.

As for the second bolded portion, I think this is a significant thing to consider. There are indications that revenues are rising across the entire league. Teams are seeing a bump in money from regional TV contracts. The Reds current contract with FS Ohio expires in 2014. They will probably need a big bump in that deal to make the Votto extension work, but on the flip side of that, they need Votto and a team that's still contending in 2014 to keep ratings up and keep themselves in a good negotiating position. Just imagine how many dollars they could have lost on their next TV contract if Votto left a year before a new were signed, and if viewership tanked because the Reds crashed back to the basement.
 
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scott91575;2136073; said:
I'm not so sure. There is still a cripple at 3B, an unkown at SS, a 2B who likely won't be back next year, LF is awful, catcher is an unkown, the center fielder couldn't hit the ball if he used a door as a bat, and noodle arm Arroyo is still in the pitching rotation (let's not forget Homer, and I don't think Cueto will duplicate last year). On top of that, no closer.

Honestly, I see this as a .500 team and no one who will step up and fill the huge hole at 3B, LF, and soon 2B. Catcher and SS might be ok, but still too early to tell.

I hope I am wrong, but I am not as optimistic as Jax (which is rather alarming).
Click to expand...


you're a wet dream killer. :(
 
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Apparently being a $250 million man comes with its own line of cereal.

ApkW37FCEAAX6OV.jpg
 
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