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Reds Tidbits (2012 Season)

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My gripe was more to the fact that the Old Red Guard regulars try so hard to demonstrate how Cueto has been "lucky" over the past 18 months and cherry pick hard core roto-nerd stats that supposedly quantify luck to prove it.

Cueto no longer has the personal dick-measuring contest with Volquez to see who will be the first to throw a complete game with 27Ks, and he's actually realized that half the players behind him have gold gloves or should/will have gold gloves that can help him record outs.

For fucks sake 23-27 year old baseball players can get better. Drew Stubbs won't, but a lot of the other ones do.
 
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BuckeyeMike80;2157227; said:
I guess I didn't realize there was even a debate about Cueto being the ace of the staff.

Just because he's not the Big Unit in 1996 doesn't mean he isn't an ace.

This comment isn't meant for anyone here, but good God Reds fans are dense sometimes. Put Cueto on the Orioles and they are legit contenders for the AL East.
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The ONLY thing I'd offer in the direction of Cueto not being an "ace", and this is nit picking nits here, is that a guy who just kind of befuddles you as he's whipping your ass isn't the soul crushing same as a guy who mows you down with a lot of K's.

When Maddux shut you out in 2 1/2 hours you still always felt like you had good pitches to hit and just missed them, when Randy Johnson got done with your team you questioned your ability to play the game. It was a shut out from both but a different mental dynamic.

That "awe factor" or whatever you want to call it is the only thing Cueto lacks that some might consider part of the "Ace" definition. Given the overall level of Reds ball sucking in so many different areas splitting hairs over the goodness of one of our 4-5 good players seems kind of fucking dumb to me.
 
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Jaxbuck;2157250; said:
The ONLY thing I'd offer in the direction of Cueto not being an "ace", and this is nit picking nits here, is that a guy who just kind of befuddles you as he's whipping your ass isn't the soul crushing same as a guy who mows you down with a lot of K's.

When Maddux shut you out in 2 1/2 hours you still always felt like you had good pitches to hit and just missed them, when Randy Johnson got done with your team you questioned your ability to play the game. It was a shut out from both but a different mental dynamic.

That "awe factor" or whatever you want to call it is the only thing Cueto lacks that some might consider part of the "Ace" definition. Given the overall level of Reds ball sucking in so many different areas splitting hairs over the goodness of one of our 4-5 good players seems kind of fucking dumb to me.
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I see Cueto as sort of a mirror to a mid-90s Mike Mussina or early 90s David Cone. The guy is clearly one of the better pitchers in the league AND easily the best pitcher on his team on the most consistent basis, yet he is clearly overlooked by both the fans of his own team and by the fans of the other teams.

One day some of these people will look up and see him with 2500Ks and 250 wins and wonder how the hell that happened.
 
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Jaxbuck;2157250; said:
The ONLY thing I'd offer in the direction of Cueto not being an "ace", and this is nit picking nits here, is that a guy who just kind of befuddles you as he's whipping your ass isn't the soul crushing same as a guy who mows you down with a lot of K's.

When Maddux shut you out in 2 1/2 hours you still always felt like you had good pitches to hit and just missed them, when Randy Johnson got done with your team you questioned your ability to play the game. It was a shut out from both but a different mental dynamic.

That "awe factor" or whatever you want to call it is the only thing Cueto lacks that some might consider part of the "Ace" definition. Given the overall level of Reds ball sucking in so many different areas splitting hairs over the goodness of one of our 4-5 good players seems kind of [censored]ing dumb to me.
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I feel just the opposite. A team that got beat by Randy Johnson simply said "that guy is [censored]ing good and beat us." On the other hand, Maddux would frustrate the hell out of hitters making them wonder "how the hell does he keep doing this to us?" not being able to hit Randy Johnson was no big deal since his stuff was amazing. Not being able to hit a guy that looks like he is throwing mediocre stuff makes you wonder if you forgot how to play the game.
 
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BuckeyeMike80;2157251; said:
I see Cueto as sort of a mirror to a mid-90s Mike Mussina or early 90s David Cone. The guy is clearly one of the better pitchers in the league AND easily the best pitcher on his team on the most consistent basis, yet he is clearly overlooked by both the fans of his own team and by the fans of the other teams.

One day some of these people will look up and see him with 2500Ks and 250 wins and wonder how the hell that happened.
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I am not sure I put Cueto with either of those. Cone got plenty of pub. Mussina was good, but only had 1 full season under 3 ERA (although it was the AL In the 90's so ERA's were higher). His problem was having a losing record in the playoffs (although most of that was his later years in NY), and when his knuckle curve was not on he got rocked.

I suppose if you stick simply to Cones KC years and Mussina's early Baltimore years you are sort of correct. Yet both got plenty of pub, and Cone got his Cy Young while in KC. Plus Cone was money in the playoffs.

I think more of Mark Langston during his years in Seattle and 1 year in Montreal. He was the best pitcher in baseball no one knew about. Of course he too was not a ERA superstar outside of 1 year.
 
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scott91575;2157254; said:
I am not sure I put Cueto with either of those. Cone got plenty of pub. Mussina was good, but only had 1 full season under 3 ERA (although it was the AL In the 90's so ERA's were higher). His problem was having a losing record in the playoffs (although most of that was his later years in NY), and when his knuckle curve was not on he got rocked.

I suppose if you stick simply to Cones KC years and Mussina's early Baltimore years you are sort of correct. Yet both got plenty of pub, and Cone got his Cy Young while in KC. Plus Cone was money in the playoffs.

I think more of Mark Langston during his years in Seattle and 1 year in Montreal. He was the best pitcher in baseball no one knew about. Of course he too was not a ERA superstar outside of 1 year.
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I was specifically talking about Moose's early years in Baltimore. I kind of wish he had come back to play another year or two because at 290 or so wins (figuring two 10 win seasons on those Yankees clubs he was on where close to assured at minimum), it would be an interesting HOF case. I think he's just short now as it is with only 270 wins and 2800Ks give or take. And just for completeness, while he was only 7-8 in the playoffs, in 1997 he was money for the O's going 2-0 and a 1.94 ERA....

But 1992-1996 Mussina was about where Cueto is today, clearly the ace but not necessarily a super duper star, and I think a 3.2-ish ERA in that era of roids and a bandbox as a home ball field isn't bad at all either but that's just my imo.....
 
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Jaxbuck;2157297; said:
I'm trying to whip up some tears here....
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crocodile_tears.jpg
 
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jlb1705;2157332; said:
Damn, Scott Van Slyke is a big dude.

Just hit a 3-run bomb to put the Dodgers ahead of the Whiny Bitches. It was his first MLB homer, and it came with the green light on a 3-0 pitch.
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His nickname is "Great Scott" and from everything I've read and what little I've seen he's the real deal. All State in 3 sports while in HS iirc-something like that, very good athlete.

I saw his first hit the other night, you can tell he's comfortable out there. Growing up around his dad and brothers all playing at a high level and such, similar to Sullinger being the baby of a sports family. Guy has the mentality of a 10 year vet.
 
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