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Reds Tidbits (2011 Season)

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gefootball10;1908820; said:
I look at it like this.. if you have two young and still developing players at the top of their respective positions in Votto and Felix involved, I think (more like hope if something like this were to go down) we'd be able to get by with throwing Edinson in there instead of Johnny (i know wishful thinking). With that Seattle get's to decide what they want to do with Smoak while he's still young (as far as possible position change) as they now have their first baseman for at least the next three years, a pitcher who we've all hoped would pan out with TOR stuff and then of course Juan.

disclaimer: at least at this point in time I value Johnny a little bit more than Edinson.

and to answer your proposal, well I think i'd do that too
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It would have to be Cueto from a contract standpoint as we speak.

The dream would be Phillips, Cordero (with their contracts), any of our starting 5 and a Francisco level prospect but the long term money starts to get too heavy against the Reds and I wouldn't do that if I'm Seattle.

No to be fair as far as actually getting a deal done I think Votto, Cueto, and JFish prospect (not Mes) is what it would take.
 
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Jaxbuck;1908831; said:
It would have to be Cueto from a contract standpoint as we speak.

The dream would be Phillips, Cordero (with their contracts), any of our starting 5 and a Francisco level prospect but the long term money starts to get too heavy against the Reds and I wouldn't do that if I'm Seattle.

No to be fair as far as actually getting a deal done I think Votto, Cueto, and JFish prospect (not Mes) is what it would take.
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Yeah, if I'm Seattle and I'm giving up the reigning CY winner, I'm wanting something more than any one of our dream deals.

My reasoning for being able to part ways with Votto is strictly because we are dealing with Felix here. The guy as you said is three years younger than Votto, and although we all love him, Votto can dip out after 2012 if he wants. With Felix I think we have a guy who would be capable to match a guy like Halladay pitch for pitch in the playoffs. With just that equalizer, I like our chances a lot more in a series with Philly (aka the goal we would all like to be met with this years team)
 
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I don't do the deal. Admittedly, I'm very much a Votto fan so that colors my perspective.

I know this is King Felix we're talking about here, and I have no delusions about the kind of talent you'd have to send the other way to get a guy like him. It's not like you can think you're going to fleece them or think that a package based on some combination of Alonzo, Leake & Valaika is going to get it done.

I just think that a trade that sends away Votto in particular for a TOR pitcher creates as many problems as it solves. Think about a Reds lineup without him. Who is the guy who is going to lead the way? Jay Bruce? Jonny Gomes? Brandon Phillips? Scott Rolen? Take Votto out of the mix and I think the offense becomes an issue that pitching would struggle to overcome. I think Votto's presence masks a lot of deficiencies in the lineup.

It's a conundrum. I don't know how the Reds are going to get a TOR guy, and I don't know how they're going to get back to the playoffs (let along make a little noise) without one. Seattle doesn't seem to match up well as a trading partner in this case.
 
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jlb1705;1908853; said:
I don't do the deal. Admittedly, I'm very much a Votto fan so that colors my perspective.

I know this is King Felix we're talking about here, and I have no delusions about the kind of talent you'd have to send the other way to get a guy like him. It's not like you can think you're going to fleece them or think that a package based on some combination of Alonzo, Leake & Valaika is going to get it done.

I just think that a trade that sends away Votto in particular for a TOR pitcher creates as many problems as it solves. Think about a Reds lineup without him. Who is the guy who is going to lead the way? Jay Bruce? Jonny Gomes? Brandon Phillips? Scott Rolen? Take Votto out of the mix and I think the offense becomes an issue that pitching would struggle to overcome. I think Votto's presence masks a lot of deficiencies in the lineup.

It's a conundrum. I don't know how the Reds are going to get a TOR guy, and I don't know how they're going to get back to the playoffs (let along make a little noise) without one. Seattle doesn't seem to match up well as a trading partner in this case.
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Yeah that's the real bitch, its the only true TOR guy out there this year (theoretically) that I can think of.

Like you said, its really more about the "oh shit what do we do now?" epiphany when it starts to sink in we have an abundance of nothing but average SP and no hope (outside of Chapman) in sight.

I'd do it strictly because I think we stand a better chance to eat into some of that lost offense than we do to ever have any of the current cast of retards do a reasonable Felix Hernandez impersonation.
 
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I think the biggest personnel mistake the Reds have made recently is not finding a way to ship Alonzo. The very day he was drafted people started saying he was going to be the Reds' Matt LaPorta. That is exactly what he has turned into, except the Reds didn't have the guts, the means or the foresight to turn him into a half season of ace pitching like the Brewers did.
 
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jlb1705;1908860; said:
I think the biggest personnel mistake the Reds have made recently is not finding a way to ship Alonzo. The very day he was drafted people started saying he was going to be the Reds' Matt LaPorta. That is exactly what he has turned into, except the Reds didn't have the guts, the means or the foresight to turn him into a half season of ace pitching like the Brewers did.
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The only way this isn't 100% true is if he somehow miracles his fat ass into being an acceptable everyday LF.

We said coming into it, this was the year Walt was going to have to make some decisions. The SP regression makes it infinitely tougher but somehow you have to turn some of these minor league position players and 7 legit #3 starters into TOR talent.
 
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In related but shocking news, Josh Johnson appears to have found a way to quiet the mighty Pirate offense as they are hitless after 3.

How is it possible any pitcher can do such a thing?
 
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