Reds Tidbits (2008 season)

[Bestbuck36]

It was but Farney wigging the fuck out and diving in LF when he didn't have to sure as fuck didn't help the situation. Freel has got to be one of the dumber ball players I have ever seen.

Also, yesterday was the last day in the history of mankind that I will defend Adam Dunn. He's a decent complimentary player who will hit you 40 mistake pitches a year into the cheap seats, that is it. Anytime a pitcher concentrates he is toast, Dunn cannot do anything with a good pitch.

Trade him if you can, let him walk and take the draft picks if you have to. I never want to see him in a Reds uniform again after this year. Same for JR and Freel.

The infield is fine, we need a complete overhaul of the OF and RF is taken care of. I want two guys with range and arms in CF and LF next year. That should be the priority and it shouldn't be that f'ing hard to do.

As always Jax, spot on. I'd be right behind you wailing but these fuckers just have me worn out right now. Total bummer the way they're playing.

 

[Bestbuck36]

I love baseball and just find other teams to admire from a distance while I wonder if my Reds will ever be good again. If you have the chance I highly recommend watching Dbacks games. Mark Grace and a good young team allow you to enjoy the on the field product without having to mute it by the 3rd inning.

Absolutely. Got em on every night here as the home team. Their pitching staff is unbelievable and every one of their regular players gives it hell night in and night out. Gotta love watching them play but at the same time I look at the amount of talent in Cincinnati and its obvious we have more overall talent than Arizona, yet we cant get more than 4 hits and 1 run in a ballgame? Yuck.

 

[CookyPuss]

The infield is fine, we need a complete overhaul of the OF and RF is taken care of. I want two guys with range and arms in CF and LF next year. That should be the priority and it shouldn't be that f'ing hard to do.

Stubbs is off to a good start in high A, he needs to move up to AA by mid-season and continue to hit and get on base at a high clip. He already has 13 steals. If he's not in AAA by next year, I think that signals that he's not progressing quickly enough.

Minor League Baseball: Stats: Player

 

[Jaxbuck]

Stubbs is off to a good start in high A, he needs to move up to AA by mid-season and continue to hit and get on base at a high clip. He already has 13 steals. If he's not in AAA by next year, I think that signals that he's not progressing quickly enough.

Minor League Baseball: Stats: Player

I think that ship has sailed.

The problem is that the Reds ML talent depth for position players is next to nothing after Bruce. Whoever we get to fill those two spots will more than likely have to come from a trade or FA.

That leads to the question what do we have to give up in return? Our depth at any position isn't such that we can trade from a surplus. Thus my going the fuck off in 2006 when they decided we would compete while we rebuild. You cannot do that with a talent starved team like we had and still do have by and large.

Any area you trade from is going to weaken you while you (hopefully) get stronger in the area you traded for. So you go from great offense and shitty pitching to pretty good pitching and shitty offense. Net result stays the same...losing.

Bob had a chance to have a firesale back in '06 and missed it, every year we wait keeps us that much farther away from being truely good again.

 

[CookyPuss]

Bob had a chance to have a firesale back in '06 and missed it, every year we wait keeps us that much farther away from being truely good again.

And there's the rub. Dunn and Griff don't have near the trade value they had then. At this point, it might be best to let them walk for draft picks. Harang is probably the only true trade chip that they have. But what do you flip an under priced ace for?

 

[Jaxbuck]

And there's the rub. Dunn and Griff don't have near the trade value they had then. At this point, it might be best to let them walk for draft picks. Harang is probably the only true trade chip that they have. But what do you flip an under priced ace for?

If you committ to a restocking of the ML system you trade them for the best package of prospects you can get. You do not go looking for even MLB return. If no decent return is availible, you do indeed let them walk and take the picks.

I would take it even farther than Dunn and JR and sell off every piece of MLB quality china we have at the trade deadline this year. I would be looking for best player availible, not by position need and I would try and keep them all in the same rough age group as Volquez, Cueto, Bruce and Bailey. You trade Harang, Arroyo, and the rest you can have a completely restocked farm system with a large bit of it being near MLB ready by this time next year.

It simply comes down to having the brains to see the opportunity, the balls to do it and the persistence to stay the course when the critics start howling.

 

[CookyPuss]

If you committ to a restocking of the ML system you trade them for the best package of prospects you can get. You do not go looking for even MLB return. If no decent return is availible, you do indeed let them walk and take the picks.

I would take it even farther than Dunn and JR and sell off every piece of MLB quality china we have at the trade deadline this year. I would be looking for best player availible, not by position need and I would try and keep them all in the same rough age group as Volquez, Cueto, Bruce and Bailey. You trade Harang, Arroyo, and the rest you can have a completely restocked farm system with a large bit of it being near MLB ready by this time next year.

It simply comes down to having the brains to see the opportunity, the balls to do it and the persistence to stay the course when the critics start howling.

Oakland does it every year it seems and they remain fairly competitive. Although, they don't seem to come up with that Jay Bruce player to drive the offense (at least not since Giambi). You're preaching to the choir with the fire sale. I've been calling for it since... well, I can't remember how long. I guess the time they failed to move Larkin was the beginning of the run of lost opportunities to truly rebuild.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

No reason for a firesale...Just cut ties with Dunn and Griffey...

Don't think the chance for Stubbs has past in any way...Even if he doesn't hit but .260 at the major league level, he has some pop, takes a good amount of walks and covers a ton of ground in CF...

I look for Frazier to be ready in left by midseason next year or 2010 and then I think you have the overhaul of the outfield we are looking for...

 

[Jaxbuck]

Your 2008 Reds by OPS as of 5/3/08:

1. EE .911
2. Votto .846
3. BP .805
4. Kepp .754

(I left out Bako and Hairston JR because they are platoon/bench guys)

5. Dunn .744
6. JR .717
7. Freel .713
8. Patterson .704


First 4 are doing the job and comprise your starting infield. The last 4 comprise the starting OF and first guy off the bench, those numbers by the way are an absolute travestshamockery.

I ask myself this-"OK, so firesale aside for now, the best way to fix what we have on hand?"

So I think of this-"How about you let your 4 best hitters protect each other and put some pressure on the opposing pitcher by keeping them together? Quit having them broken up by the innefective OFers untill such time as they get their sorry asses in gear?"

And I quickly get an appreciation for what Dusty is going through.

Best 4 by OPS followed by OF

Kepp
BP
EE
Votto
Dunn
JR
Freel/CP
Catcher

That won't work because 4 through 8 are lefties if CP and Bako are playing. The left handed heaviness and total lack of production from the OF are just absolutely crushing this offense right now. You can't keep the lefties somewhat broken up and still keep your productive hitters together.

Patterson, JR and Dunn must go. Bruce replaces JR and you now have 3/4 of your corner hitters set for the future in Bruce, EE and Votto. You need one more power bat in LF and it must be RH. You need a CF who is a glove man first and foremost. Given Dusty's religious belief that the CF must hit leadoff, it would help if the new CF was capable of sporting a healthy OBP.

I know it sounds a lot easier than it is but thats what we need. A CF, a new LF and a bench WITHOUT going backward in the pitching department.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Oh, by the way.

Remember all the times I sat here trying to tell people there was absolutely no correlation between a team that K's a lot and run production? Remember Sloopy and the Marty acolytes who swore up and down that free swinging, high K teams were doomed to offensive failure because a K was somehow worse than any other out? Remember how I tried to point out that all outs are bad, that the number one job of a hitter was to not make an out?

Guess which team is currently 4th best in the NL in not striking out and 4th worst in scoring runs.

I would love to hear Marty and company explain this one after the way the used to go on and on about it.

 

[Buckeye Chris]

Its ridiculous...We cant win anything, we couldnt hit a watermelon if it was lobbed at us.

 

[CookyPuss]

So I think of this-"How about you let your 4 best hitters protect each other and put some pressure on the opposing pitcher by keeping them together? Quit having them broken up by the innefective OFers untill such time as they get their sorry asses in gear?"

I see Dusty read your post for today's line-up:
R Freel CF
K Griffey Jr RF
B Phillips 2B
J Votto 1B
E Encarnacion 3B
A Dunn LF
J Keppinger SS

Of course, as Bronson and Fogg coughed up 12 runs, it didn't matter.

 

[NFBuck]

Its ridiculous...We cant win anything, we couldnt hit a watermelon if it was lobbed at us.

Seems to be an epidemic in Ohio right now. Question: If the Tribe and Reds were to play tomorrow, how many innings until one of them scored a run?

 

[jlb1705]

Seems to be an epidemic in Ohio right now. Question: If the Tribe and Reds were to play tomorrow, how many innings until one of them scored a run?

If Arroyo's on the mound for the Reds, the Indians would get all the runs they'd need in the first inning.

 

[NFBuck]

If Arroyo's on the mound for the Reds, the Indians would get all the runs they'd need in the first inning.

That's certainly debatable. Our lineup has made total scrubs look like Cy Young candidates all year (Gil Meche today) . Eight fucking hits the last two days against the Royals. Both franchises are in pretty sad states right now.