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Reds Tidbits (2006 Season)

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Dispatch

3/17/06

Reds outfielder Ken Griffey Jr . addressed reports this week about a passage in an upcoming book about Barry Bonds. The book alleges that Bonds told Griffey he was going "to start using some hard-core stuff" as a way to compete with the top home run hitters.

The conversation, which supposedly occurred over dinner with Griffey and three associates at Griffey’s Florida home after the 1998 season, centered on how the home run chase between Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa had dominated the news. The authors said that particulars about the incident didn’t come from Griffey or Bonds.
"I’ve been to Barry’s house (and) he’s been to my house since we were kids, so that is nothing new," Griffey said. "The conversation that supposedly happened, I don’t ever remember happening. That’s it. I just don’t remember talking about the use of performance-enhancing drugs."
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Cincy

3/17/06

WBC leaves Peña rusty

BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

<!--ARTICLE BODY TEXT-->SARASOTA, Fla. - Wily Mo Peña is going to the World Baseball Classic semifinals with the Dominican Republic.
But that does not mean he'll be getting any at-bats.
Peña has played in two of the Dominican's six games and has just six at-bats in the WBC so far.
That's not good for a player who is still developing.
"It's out of our hands," Reds hitting coach Chris Chambliss said. "But it's not the ideal situation."
Peña, 24, had his development stunted in part by the structure of his contract. When he was 21, the Reds were forced to keep him in the big leagues or risk losing him. He has three full years in the majors but only 830 at-bats.
Peña got three at-bats before he left to join the Dominican Republic team on March 3. He'll end up missing at least 17 days of spring training.
Reds manager Jerry Narron couldn't say how much the inactivity will hurt Peña.
"I don't think it helps him, sitting and not playing," Narron said.
Peña will be back in time for the Reds' final 12 spring games.
"That's the good part," Chambliss said. "When he returns, we'll get him as many at-bats as we can. Hitters are able to get ready faster than pitchers."
Peña was penciled in as the Reds' starting left fielder. He has played that position less than the other outfield spots.
It no longer seems a given than Peña will play every day. Adam Dunn started in left field Thursday and Rich Aurilia played first base.
Aurilia and Scott Hatteberg give the Reds right- and left-handed options at first base when Dunn plays left.
So Peña's spring inactivity could cost him playing time, especially early in the season.
"We can't change it now," Chambliss said. "Obviously, it would be better if he was playing."
E-mail [email protected]
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Cincy

3/18/06

'Shack' just wants the ball

Reliever focuses on his own pitching, not on that of others

BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

DUNEDIN, Fla. - Brian Shackelford had to be thinking he was sitting pretty after last season.

Shackelford, a 29-year-old left-hander, pitched well for the Reds after his call-up June 26, going 4-1 with a 2.43 ERA. His numbers across the board were good: 21 hits, 17 strikeouts and nine walks in 291/3 innings.

But Shackelford's job security took a hit when the Reds signed veteran lefty Chris Hammond.

Shackelford is one of the most happy-go-lucky guys in the Reds' clubhouse, so he's hardly complaining about his lot in life.

"You can't look at it like that," he said. "I don't get caught up in who's here and who's not."

Shackelford has had a good spring, allowing one run on five hits over six innings, walking one and striking out three. He also has impressed Reds manager Jerry Narron with his willingness to take the ball in any situation.

"He did a good job for us," Narron said. "The thing you worried about with Shack was, could you trust him to throw enough strikes? The worst thing for a guy who is going to face one batter is to come in and walk him.
"He definitely came in and threw strikes."

Shackelford's success in the majors was somewhat surprising - even to him.

He was 1-6 with a 5.23 ERA at Triple-A Louisville when he got the call-up.

"When I first got up there, I was in a mop-up role to eat up innings,"

Shackelford said. "But after I got comfortable and had some success, they trusted me more with the lefty specialist role."

Shackelford made his big-league debut at age 28, but there's a reason for that. He signed as an outfielder and didn't become a pitcher full time until 2003.

The Reds got Shackelford from the Kansas City Royals in a March 2003 trade. He went 8-1 with a 3.58 ERA for Louisville in 2004, but he wasn't given much of a shot to make the Reds because they had signed left-hander Kent Mercker in the offseason.

Shackelford brings the gamer attitude of a position player to pitching.

"Shack wants the ball," Narron said. "That's what you want to see."
Said Shackelford: "I've always been that way. When I was a hitter, I wanted to be up there with the game on the line."

Last year was an educational process for Shackelford and the Reds' other less-experienced relievers. Shackelford, Todd Coffey, Matt Belisle and Jason Standridge were pitching in a big-league bullpen for the first time.

Having Mercker and David Weathers around helped them.

"First of all, they know the hitters," Shackelford said. "They're always three innings ahead, so they tell you what to expect. They really helped us.

"I was talking to young guys with other clubs who didn't have veteran guys.

It really makes a difference."

Adding Hammond to that mix could cost Shackelford a big-league job. But he's not preoccupied with that.

"All I do is go out and pitch," Shackelford said. "Competition is good. I don't worry about what's not in my control."

E-mail [email protected]
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Don't buy this bullshit.

They are going to find a way to play Aurillia/Hatteberg/Woemack etc no matter what. Lopez tore the cover off the ball all spring last year and found himself riding the pine behind Aurilia when the year started. If Aurillia didn't get hurt he may have never played at all. The same shit will happen to Ed E and Pena this year.

Instead of letting a young talented player like Pena just get his AB's in the early part of the year they'll spew some bullshit about Aurillia giving them the best chance to win and constantly juggle the lineup so his washed up ass(or those like him) get as many or more AB's than the kids like EE, Pena or even Lopez.

Its been this way for several years now and Narron (pronounced like moron) doesn't give any indication of changing the pattern. They try and insult our intelligence a bit more every day.
 
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Cincy

3/19/06

News flash: Pitching needed

The Reds' neverending story hasn't changed; only the players have

BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

<!--ARTICLE BODY TEXT-->BRADENTON, Fla. - The minority partners in the Reds had their first meeting Saturday in Sarasota.
General manager Wayne Krivsky addressed them. We're sure he was honest about the club's chances this year.
Krivsky is a scout at heart, and the scouts we talk to do not think the Reds have the pitching to compete this year.
If Krivsky told the owners that and they didn't believe him, they got an object lesson in it a little later.
Left-hander Michael Gosling, who for most of the spring has been reviewed as having a legitimate shot at being the fifth starter, gave up nine runs and recorded only one out in a 15-5 loss to the Pittsburgh Pirates.
All seven hits he gave up were rockets. This outing comes after he allowed four runs on four hits in one-third of an inning in his previous outing.
That's not the guy you want out there April 9 when the Reds need a fifth starter for the first time.
CEO Bob Castellini has been telling everyone since he bought the team that the Reds are better than people think.
Scouts don't think that.
"You've got to wonder about the pitching," one told us Saturday. "(Aaron) Harang and (Brandon) Claussen are all right. But Harang's a No. 3 for most teams.
"The lineup is fine. The bullpen will be OK until the end of the game. They'll be lucky to play .500."
His bottom-line assessment of the Reds: The team speed is better than last year, but the starting pitching - on paper at least - isn't as good, and there's no established closer.
So playing at .500 would be a major accomplishment, because other than Harang and Claussen, the rest of the rotation is a long line of question marks.
With Paul Wilson still throwing two innings in simulated games and building arm strength, it's looking more and more like he won't be ready until May.
So to start the season, the rotation will be Harang, Claussen, Eric Milton, Dave Williams and an arm-to-be-named-later.
Harang and Claussen have been good this spring. Milton has been hurt. And Williams has looked hittable. He gave up eight runs on 10 hits in 31/3 innings Saturday in the other game of the split-squad against Atlanta in Orlando.
The alternatives for the fifth starter are Justin Germano (0-1, 4.85 ERA) and Gosling (1-1, 16.20) - if, as manager Jerry Narron said Thursday, the Reds don't want to rush Homer Bailey.
(By the way, Bailey took over for Gosling and went 2 2/3 innings, allowing an unearned run on two hits. He struck out five and walked none.)
Again, we're certain Krivsky knows the starting rotation isn't going to get the Reds anywhere near the promised land.
But knowing that and fixing that are two different things.
Krivsky took over so late that all the good pitching had been gobbled up.
The Reds have a lot of spare parts. They have more viable candidates for second base than they have for starting pitching. But of the potential second basemen, Ryan Freel is the only one with much trade value.
They could trade Wily Mo Peña without hurting the offense too much and improve the defense in the process.
But not a lot of teams are willing to give up pitching. And neither Freel nor Peña is going to get you a No. 1 starter.
Heck, you'd have to package them together to get a No. 3, probably.
We're guessing Krivsky mentioned patience to the new owners. It looks like they're going to need a good deal of it this season.
E-mail [email protected]
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crazybuckfan40 said:
This might be the most truthful line ever spoken from a reporter.
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or maybe this one:

The Reds have a lot of spare parts. They have more viable candidates for second base than they have for starting pitching. But of the potential second basemen, Ryan Freel is the only one with much trade value.
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It gets back to my fundamental belief regarding the future of the Reds organization.

The current core of good young talented position players will have to be shipped off to replenish one of the most barren farm systems in all of MLB.

There is no pitching at the ML level and aside from Bailey, who is a giant maybe and at least 2 years away, none in the minors.

In the hands of a competent front office there are plenty of valuable parts that can be used to rebuild the Reds. Or you can try and win in the short term by going on a spending spree to buy just an average pitching staff to compliment your current bumper crop of young talented position players.

You just cant keep trying to win as you rebuild. Pick a road and follow it but for the love of God do something. I can't take much more of the Reds as they are currently constructed.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
or maybe this one:



It gets back to my fundamental belief regarding the future of the Reds organization.

The current core of good young talented position players will have to be shipped off to replenish one of the most barren farm systems in all of MLB.

There is no pitching at the ML level and aside from Bailey, who is a giant maybe and at least 2 years away, none in the minors.

In the hands of a competent front office there are plenty of valuable parts that can be used to rebuild the Reds. Or you can try and win in the short term by going on a spending spree to buy just an average pitching staff to compliment your current bumper crop of young talented position players.

You just cant keep trying to win as you rebuild. Pick a road and follow it but for the love of God do something. I can't take much more of the Reds as they are currently constructed.
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I think there is some young pitching coming through the minors. I am not sure, but their second round draft pick from last year is suppossedly very good.

Another thing is alot of our young pitchers have been rushed to the minors like Wagner, Belisle, Clauseen. These guys could of used a little more time in the minors.

I see a core, I just hope they know how and what to do with it.

Team of the future(2 years)

1B - Dunn

2B - need a young guy to step up here and get rid of all those old fucks

SS - Lopez - He showed last year he is an all-star, just needs to continue to play at that high level.

3b - EE - he is hitting the shit out of the ball in ST. Hopefully he can keep that up.

RF - Kearns - unfortunatly, I hope that he has a decent year and his trade value goes up so we could get a nice young arm for him.

CF - Griffey will be about done and we are going to need someone to step up, or pick someone up. A good CF usually isnt extremely hard to come by, especially how we stockpile outfielders on our bench.

LF - Pena - He has so much potential, now lets see it put to use.

C - one position where we are old, I really want to see a young guy make his way up to AAA and let us know that he needs to be in the majors. I remember us drafting a second round catcher two years ago I think, not sure on the name tho.

ACE - Harang, give Harang a couple years and he could develop into our ACE. He has that long body, to where he doesnt need to throw extremely hard, but it is deceptive.

#2 - Bailey, in two years I think he will be ready and he has shown flashes of things that we havent seen from any young prospect in the Reds organization for a long time. He is rated as the number 2 minor league prospect.

#3 - Still looking, we are goign to need someone, through trade or a young kid to step up.

#4 - Clauseen - He also has a lot of potentialand I think he wil make a good #4.

#5 - Williams - I have no idea, I look for him to be gone, b/c Cincy is where pitchers come to die, but maybe he could turn into a servicable #5, great trade to get rid of an all-star first baseman for a #5 pitcher

Bullpen:

Belisle, Wagner are two young guys that by that time should have developed into something.

I really like COffey to become the closer of the future. I think he will do what he has to do to become that guy.

Germano and Chick, the two young guys we got from San Diego in the trade for Randa, have been impressive.

Overall we just don't have depth in our organization to be able to just plug ppl in when we need them, but we don't have a bad looking future, if we can just guide it in the right direction.
 
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I admire your optimisim.

I unfortunately am a realist and a realist is just an optimist who has been around for a while. :wink2:

Harang is not now or ever will be an ace by any standard other than that of the pitching starved Reds. He's a #3 to almost any other club out there. If we had 4 more guys just like him we'd be in good shape. Bad part is that he is far and away our most talented pitcher and he's really just a slightly above average ML player.

Bailey has a ML caliber fastball and curve. He has no third pitch and no control. If he makes it at all he's more than likely headed for the pen or the middle of the rotation. He only seems like a phenom in our system, anywhere else he's just a young guy who throws hard but has a lot of work to do.

Coffey throws hard, I'll give him that. Problem is that physics dictate a higher velocity on the way to the plate equals more distance from the plate when he throws it down the middle and ML hitters crush it.

Germano and Chick were impressive all right but not in a good way.

In 49 IP with the Reds at AAA in '05, Germano gave up 62 Hits and 27 Runs.

In 144 IP of AA ball with both SD and Cin in 2005, Chick gave up 154 hits, 90 runs and walked 67.

If either one of those guys is what your building your hopes on I hope you handle dissapointment well.


They guys you mention as being pitchers of the future are all products of the tallest midget/smartest Hilton sister syndrome. They are really just average to slightly above average schmo's, but put them next to a gaggle fuck of other guys who have no business even playing professional baseball and viola...they look like Cy Young.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
I admire your optimisim.

I unfortunately am a realist and a realist is just an optimist who has been around for a while. :wink2:

Harang is not now or ever will be an ace by any standard other than that of the pitching starved Reds. He's a #3 to almost any other club out there. If we had 4 more guys just like him we'd be in good shape. Bad part is that he is far and away our most talented pitcher and he's really just a slightly above average ML player.

Bailey has a ML caliber fastball and curve. He has no third pitch and no control. If he makes it at all he's more than likely headed for the pen or the middle of the rotation. He only seems like a phenom in our system, anywhere else he's just a young guy who throws hard but has a lot of work to do.

Coffey throws hard, I'll give him that. Problem is that physics dictate a higher velocity on the way to the plate equals more distance from the plate when he throws it down the middle and ML hitters crush it.

Germano and Chick were impressive all right but not in a good way.

In 49 IP with the Reds at AAA in '05, Germano gave up 62 Hits and 27 Runs.

In 144 IP of AA ball with both SD and Cin in 2005, Chick gave up 154 hits, 90 runs and walked 67.

If either one of those guys is what your building your hopes on I hope you handle dissapointment well.


They guys you mention as being pitchers of the future are all products of the tallest midget/smartest Hilton sister syndrome. They are really just average to slightly above average schmo's, but put them next to a gaggle fuck of other guys who have no business even playing professional baseball and viola...they look like Cy Young.
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Well I said give them a couple years. I think many will disagree with you on Bailey as he is rated the #2 prospect, and he is only 19/20?? with a ton of potential. Not anytime soon tho. He was the Reds leader in strikeouts in the spring and he only threw 7 2/3 innings. He was really impressive this spring and the club isnt thinking about bringing him up any time soon, so I think he will be a stud. He also had 3 walks. If he builds up his arm and develops a third pitch in 2 years he will be a starter, if not he will be a very dependable guy to go to in the bullpen. Maybe as a closer.

Chick while he had a bad season last year is also young(22) he has time and just two seasons ago he was outstanding in single A and was the Padres top pitching prospect and was the padres 4th best prospect when they traded him.

Harang is just 27. He was 11-13 last year and the Reds were 13-19 in his starts, but there were 7 of his starts where the reds scored 1 or 0 runs. Kind of hard to win those games, no matter who you are. He logged the most innings for a Reds righthander since Jose Rijo in 1993. I think that he has potential to be that guy that we need to go to in a couple years.

Then Clauseen is just 26 and his ERA was 4.21 last season. Which is not great but is managable especially at a young age. He also logged a career high in innings last year.

Coffey is only 25 so it is a good thing to have a young guy that can throw hard. The other pitches is what they will work on all season. He also has only given up 5 hr in 58 innings of major league work. I would like to see him develop more in the AAA, but if he gets a spot in the bullpen they need to make sure he can get some work.

Wagner is only 23 and he has a ton of potential and I would just like to see him get some innings. He has been unhittable at times out the pen and has been like he was throwing underhand at times. He also had college experience so he is somewhat seasoned.

Germano is another guy in his early 20's and he was 9th in AAA in ERA b4 the trade, also 3rd in k's. He had 5 quality starts outta 8 for the bats. Doesnt sound all that unimpressive to me.

I would say a pitcher doesnt reach his absolute prime until he is in his mid to late 20's unless you have studs. I am not saying all these guys are going to be Cy Young, just saying we have some young talent and potential to work with.

Hopefully in a couple years we wont have to put up the Eric Milton's and the Paul Wilson's of the world.
 
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I think we measure by different standards.

W/L record for a pitcher means very little to me and what a prospect is ranked means less. If you're the #3 prospect in a bad system does that mean your any good? Look at H/9, K/BB ratio, hr/9, WHIP and BB/9 to get a better idea of what a guy is all about.

Also you might want to beware a lot of those minor league stats from the PCL and other west coast venues, there are many notorious pitchers parks that inflate the numbers. Germano and Chick might still develop into something but just look at the numbers. Both got rocked at their repective levels last year.
 
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Wily Mo just got dealt to the Red Sox for Bronson Arroyo and cash. Here is a link from Boston.com, ESPin has it as well.


http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/thebuzz/

Wily Mo to the Sox for Arroyo
The Red Sox have traded Bronson Arroyo to the Reds in exchange for outfielder Wily Mo Pena, the Globe's Chris Snow has confirmed. Both Foxsports.com and the Boston Herald reported Monday that the Red Sox have had discussions with the Reds about trading for the right-handed outfielder. According to Foxsports.com's Ken Rosenthal, one of the Reds' top scouts watched Arroyo pitch against the Orioles on Sunday (he pitched five scoreless innings). The 24-year-old Pena had 19 homers in just 99 games last season, and has averaged a homer every 16.2 at bats. He hit .291 against lefties last season, and the Sox could theoretically use him in a platoon role with Trot Nixon (who struggles against lefties) in right field.
 
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Wow, I have to believe the Reds got absolutely fleeced here. I was never very high oon Arroyo. He is basically a junk baller that does not seem to be what you would want pitching in the GAB. If Clement was the target and they enedd up with Arroyo, then it makes the trade even worse.

At least Krivsky showed everyone that he has the sack to make any move. That is the only positive I get out of this trade.
 
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