Recruiting Issues (Merged)

[BUCKYLE]

I find it an interesting trend that so many people scoff at 5-star prospects and associate them with having less heart or motor than 3-star prospects. I've seen nothing to support this.

I understand your point. But, being a buckeye, I view it (recently) as the MoC./A.J. Hawk syndrome. :tongue2:

I wonder why there are so many guys that played for M.A.C. schools that end up as NFL H.O.F.'ers? Not that 5 stars always bust or anything, but its just that sooo many players sneak "under the radar" that leaves me feeling weary about rankings in general. Not to mention that the services that issue "stars" all have something to gain by it.

 

[methomps]

I understand your point. But, being a buckeye, I view it (recently) as the MoC./A.J. Hawk syndrome. :tongue2:

I wonder why there are so many guys that played for M.A.C. schools that end up as NFL H.O.F.'ers? Not that 5 stars always bust or anything, but its just that sooo many players sneak "under the radar" that leaves me feeling weary about rankings in general. Not to mention that the services that issue "stars" all have something to gain by it.

I think you'd find that the percentage of 3-star players who go on to great success (All-Americans, NFL players, etc) is much less than the percentage of 5-star players who do the same. It's just that the 5-star player who doesn't have the heart and fails gets a lot more attention than the 3-star player who doesn't have the heart and fails.

Picking out individual players is not very useful. You could easily flip the script by comparing Vince Young (5-star who willed his team to a NC) to Eric Wright (2-star who dealt drugs).

People fly under the radar at all levels. Sometimes it is merely being a late-bloomer. The NFL can't do much better than the recruiting services. If they could, Ryan Leaf wouldn't get drafted with the #2 overall pick while Matt Hasselback goes in the bottom of the 6th round that same year.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

ahem

back to the actual topic of discussion, this post makes a great point:

In todays era, kids seem to be all about hype and bringing "Bling" or attention to themselves. Ok, you are a punk 17/18 year old kid and I know you have much to learn.

BUT, as a parent of 3, if any of my kids have that opportunity, I will make certain that they handle it with class and respect.

The parents of that kid deserve to be slapped as much as he does.

If, by some miracle, my son manages to become an athlete in spite of having ME for a father, you can bet the mortgage that he will fax in his LOI from home and go to school as if it were a normal day. If there is an event put on by the high-school for all of their athletes signing LOIs, we will politely decline.

I have no problem with parents and kids who do take part in these multi-signing events. But in my mind this situation presents a great opportunity to teach my son about what's really important in life. There are appropriate ceremonies to mark a boy's passage into manhood, but this is not one of them IMHO.

 

[Steve19]

I believe that the APR will have the effect of causing high school athletes to actually put forth an effort in high school. Higher standards are not about excluding students of lower academic ability, they are about prodding young people to live up to their potential.

And, most successful people will tell you that showing off, acting like a jerk, and not respecting your elders is NOT the way to be successful. Humility, hard work, and respect...THAT'S the way winners behave. And that is Jim Tressel's specialty.

Good point, IrontonBuck. Tressel has sent some strong messages this year about who he wants on the team. He has avoided kids who have borderline academic performance and perhaps some with character issues. One student not pulling his weight can influence a lot of kids academically. There is a message that, if you want to play for Ohio State, you have to have the right values.

You can knit a team around that and the result can be extraordinary performance.

 

[osugrad21]

These arrogant kids will get their asses kicked in practice with the big boys and hopefully snap out of it. With every single college telling you how great you are it would be hard not to get big headed.

How do you blame the kids here? Not many of us, if any at all, generated millions of dollars for companies before we turned 17...not many of us were pursued by the best football coaches in America and found text messages every morning or evening on our cell phones. I have a hard time blaming any teenager who suddenly finds himself in a bright spotlight...especially if those kids come from situations not many on this board comprehend. Class and tact come from guidance. If I blame anyone at all here, I would blame those guiding the kids..coaches, parents, recruiting services who play up the big ceremonies and drama, etc.

 

[BB73]

I'm not very big on the signing day press conferences, and I think the 'hat switching' is a trend that should disappear, but there was one 'put on the hat' press conference that was a little different this year.

Andre Smith had three hats on the table in front of him. He didn't pick any of them up, and reached under the table to get the houndstooth hat he put on his head. That had to get the folks in Alabama pumped up.

 

[DCBuckFan]

I didn't see this in this thread, and it could fit better elsewhere or in a different thread.. but here it is.

"They [A&M] take care of you down there," McCoy told the Midland Reporter-Telegram. "I know from my brother they keep your pockets full, give you plenty of money, keep feeding you meals. Besides that, all the help they give you with football. They keep you on your grades with private tutoring. Just good all-around."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3635574.html

 

[crazybuckeye]

Regarding the Doug Harris article, it must come as somewhat of a surprise to Erik Haw, as he prepares for his sophmore season, to find out he "didn't pan out" at Ohio State.

 

[OSU>michigan]

I don't disagree much but what I have found over the last 10-20 years is the liberal use of kid. They are 17-18 year old kids who do have to make a decision and quite an important one. Expecting it to be done with class, respect, and maturity is not too much to ask of someone who is more than likely driving an automobile. We talk so liberally about "kids", whether they be 17 or even 21, but yet we allow these kids the tremendous responsiblity of driving. Driving a car that not only could kill themselves but those around them. We, in general as a public, have asked schools and others to supervise our "kids", be responsible for them, communicate when they are doing poorly or have other problems. Then we turn around and toss the car keys to them and allow them to go on their merry old way without supervision, in a machine that requires, moreso than ever before, tremendous maturity and respect. My point is, either they are "kids" or they are not. If they are still "kids" then they should not be driving on the road for our safety and most importantly their safety. Now I will get off of my soap box for a second and remind everyone of the real culprit in the "announcing" of choices...the media. E$PN to be even more blunt. Of course, as the media would tell it, it is our fault for be recruitniks.

 

[NorthShoreBuck]

I have considered whether I should post in here or not.

When we talk about these kids you have to remember that they are making a 4 year commitment which is in reality 25% of their existing life to a coach that may not be there in fours years. Up to that point it may be the biggest decision they have made and also may be one of the biggest decisions their parents have made.

Being 17 or 18 brings with it different levels of maturity. Some are physically mature while not as advanced emotionally or mentally. Some handle these matters in a mature almost nonchalant fashion while others revel in it. Let them enjoy their day. I agree with 21 and others that the folks like us that follow recruiting have built this monster with our dollars. Perhaps the NCAA will rein this noise in one day but I fear the cat is out of the bag.

Of course we will hear about some such as the FSU kid that are disgruntled once their all world status is returned to terra firma as two a days start and they do not.

A long time ago I was lucky enough to enjoy this experience. It was well before the net and kids being super stars before they ever played a college down. I showed up to signing day in a t-shirt and jeans while my fellow players wore jackets and ties There was a ceremony but I ducked out as I thought this was much to do about nothing. I have related some of the things that happend to me in other threads. Even back then I understood that the decision I made seemed to be more important to others than it was to me.

Now to end this on an up note. The NOLA Times picks a Super 16 and follows them as they sign. As you can imagine most sign with LSU but many have gone to Miami, FSU, UF , GA and GT to name a few. I read where one kid was more proud of the fact that he would be the first person in his family to go to college than the fact that he got a scholarship to LSU. I hope he is the first one to graduate. One kid caught my eye as he signed with LA Tech, This is usually not where you see Super 16 kids end up. Turns out he is the sole caregiver for his father who is blind. The LA Tech area has a school for the blind which can help take of his father and get him prepared for a job. If that kid never starts a down he will always be a winner in my book.

 

[methomps]

I don't disagree much but what I have found over the last 10-20 years is the liberal use of kid. They are 17-18 year old kids who do have to make a decision and quite an important one. Expecting it to be done with class, respect, and maturity is not too much to ask of someone who is more than likely driving an automobile. We talk so liberally about "kids", whether they be 17 or even 21, but yet we allow these kids the tremendous responsiblity of driving. Driving a car that not only could kill themselves but those around them. We, in general as a public, have asked schools and others to supervise our "kids", be responsible for them, communicate when they are doing poorly or have other problems. Then we turn around and toss the car keys to them and allow them to go on their merry old way without supervision, in a machine that requires, moreso than ever before, tremendous maturity and respect. My point is, either they are "kids" or they are not. If they are still "kids" then they should not be driving on the road for our safety and most importantly their safety. Now I will get off of my soap box for a second and remind everyone of the real culprit in the "announcing" of choices...the media. E$PN to be even more blunt. Of course, as the media would tell it, it is our fault for be recruitniks.

I think you are making the assumption that the maturity required to drive comes along at the same age/stage as the maturity to handle the spotlight with class and dignity. I don't agree.

We should also note that kids are required to pass a driving test of some sort to get a license (often after a year with a provisional license). Few of these kids get a year of training in how to handle the recruiting process prior to being thrust onto the stage with 3 hats.

 

[Steve19]

That's a great post, NorthShore, greenies for you!

I have considered whether I should post in here or not.

When we talk about these kids you have to remember that they are making a 4 year commitment which is in reality 25% of their existing life to a coach that may not be there in fours years. Up to that point it may be the biggest decision they have made and also may be one of the biggest decisions their parents have made.

Being 17 or 18 brings with it different levels of maturity. Some are physically mature while not as advanced emotionally or mentally. Some handle these matters in a mature almost nonchalant fashion while others revel in it. Let them enjoy their day. I agree with 21 and others that the folks like us that follow recruiting have built this monster with our dollars. Perhaps the NCAA will rein this noise in one day but I fear the cat is out of the bag.

Of course we will hear about some such as the FSU kid that are disgruntled once their all world status is returned to terra firma as two a days start and they do not.

A long time ago I was lucky enough to enjoy this experience. It was well before the net and kids being super stars before they ever played a college down. I showed up to signing day in a t-shirt and jeans while my fellow players wore jackets and ties There was a ceremony but I ducked out as I thought this was much to do about nothing. I have related some of the things that happend to me in other threads. Even back then I understood that the decision I made seemed to be more important to others than it was to me.

Now to end this on an up note. The NOLA Times picks a Super 16 and follows them as they sign. As you can imagine most sign with LSU but many have gone to Miami, FSU, UF , GA and GT to name a few. I read where one kid was more proud of the fact that he would be the first person in his family to go to college than the fact that he got a scholarship to LSU. I hope he is the first one to graduate. One kid caught my eye as he signed with LA Tech, This is usually not where you see Super 16 kids end up. Turns out he is the sole caregiver for his father who is blind. The LA Tech area has a school for the blind which can help take of his father and get him prepared for a job. If that kid never starts a down he will always be a winner in my book.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Kids will be kids. Period.

One day, these guys that bought into the hype around them may look back and think they made asses out of themselves, they may not.

As I grow older, I tend to shake my head at kids and wonder why they do what they do. But, I am not too far removed from being a kid myself to understand that kids will do stupid things. It's a part of growing up. If I were to look back at my life on my 30th Birthday and the most disrespectfull, idiotic thing I had done was to throw another colleges hat on the ground...I think I would be in pretty good shape.

 

[osugrad21]

Canton Rep

2/7

[FONT=Verdana,Times New Roman,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Recruiting not exact science[/FONT]
Tuesday, February 7, 2006 [FONT=Verdana,Times New Roman,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]By TODD PORTER[/FONT]
College football recruiting analysts can go on vacation.
Their dutiful work is done.
Actually, it’s not bad work if you can get it. Recruiting Web sites have shared opinions and rankings on how college football’s big brothers did during recruiting season. They’ve assigned stars, numbers, grades and point values to each recruit. They’ve ranked teams. They pored over hours of videotape, studied players, looked at stats and talked more about 18-year-old boys than most should.
And now? It doesn’t matter.
More than half will be wrong. Recruiting an 18-year-old high school player is a great deal more difficult than drafting a 22-year-old college player in the NFL. College players will change more in four years of college than they will in the NFL.
Look at A.J. Hawk. Some thought he’d be a fullback at Ohio State.
Look at Ohio State’s 2002 recruiting class. Hawk, according to Scout.com, was a three-star player, far short of Mike D’Andrea’s five stars. In fact, D’Andrea was the nation’s No. 1 linebacker coming out of Avon Lake High School.
Hawk?
He turned out to be the best player in that class and will be a top 10 pick in April’s NFL Draft. Rob Sims, who will be drafted, was an afterthought in the 2002 class. T.J. Downing, destined to be a three-year starter next season, was a two-star candidate and the 121st offensive lineman in the nation.
And the guy they missed by a long shot? Nick Mangold.
He wasn’t even ranked nationally and received one measly star. Mangold was a four-year starter and has asserted himself, at least early, as the most likely center to be drafted first.
“Recruiting is such an inexact science,” Ohio State Head Coach Jim Tressel said. “We put so much time into it, just like they do for the NFL Draft. I remember a former staff member here, when we said we were going to offer A.J. Hawk a scholarship, he said we were giving a scholarship to a Division I-AA fullback.
“Now A.J. will be able to buy a few things here in a few days.”
There isn’t a sure way to judge any player. There is, however, an “it” factor. It’s something recruiting analysts don’t always see. It’s something coaches miss. “It” is the reason why Indiana, Purdue or Northwestern once in a while land a recruit no one else wanted, and he turns into a star.
“Recruiting is the constant accumulation of data, then you try to get to know the kids as best you can,” Tressel said. “It’s harder now than 20 years ago because of the number of contacts you’re allowed, but you have to try to figure out if they can fit into our system. There are no magic formulas, but we keep working at it.”
Outside of the big three in the Big Ten — Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State — there are not enough known quantities in the other classes to say for sure these players will make a difference in four years. Is anyone about to say Indiana will turn things around?
Of course not.
“I don’t care about rankings or the number of stars players receive from the Internet recruiting sites,” Purdue Coach Joe Tiller said. “We tried to zero in on guys who are good fits ... Purdue is basically a developmental program, and we look for guys who can develop and turn into players.
“The problem is that we might only hit on 50 percent. We might think a certain guy may develop into a certain type of a player, and 50 percent of the time it works, and 50 percent of the time it doesn't. If it doesn't work, then we look at junior college players.”
The Boilermakers signed seven junior college players this season, a lot of JUCO transfers in one year.
There could be two reasons.
Tiller admitted the first.
He needs immediate help in several positions.
But maybe time is running out on Tiller. JUCO players, particularly more than two or three a year, usually means someone better start winning soon. Tiller referred to Purdue as a developmental program. Seven JUCO players in one season doesn’t suggest developing anything but a quick fix.
JUST SO YOU KNOW
Troy Smith and Justin Zwick were both rated four stars, Zwick the 14th-best quarterback prospect and Smith the 15th. Now they’re reversed on the depth chart.
AND ONE MORE THING
In case anyone was wondering who the other five-star recruits in that 2002 class were ... Mike Kudla, who came out of Medina Highland High School, was riding a wave of hype. But, in hindsight, the most overrated five-star player was running back Maurice Clarett. Those rankings don’t take into account a player’s mental makeup.
THIS YEAR’S CLASS
For what it’s worth, most services had Ohio State ranked in the top 15 classes in the country. That’s not bad for signing 20 players, and getting among those 20: the top-ranked high school running back (Chris Wells), the best junior college linebacker (Larry Grant), the top high school fullback (Aram Olson, who goes 6-foot-2, 240 pounds) and the top high school defensive end (Robert Rose). The Buckeyes landed seven of the country’s top 100 recruits as ranked by Scout.com. That’s as many as USC’s highly-touted class.

 

[osugrad21]

Fox Sports

2/7

College football recruiting 101
<script> function BlogThisStoryTools() { var headline = "College football recruiting 101"; var url = document.location.href; var destination = "http://blogs.foxsports.com/BlogThis.aspx?r_title=" + escape(headline) + "&r_url=" + url; //alert(destination); //return; window.location.href = destination; } </script>



<table class="bdy" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="770"> <tbody><tr><td height="5">
</td></tr> </tbody> </table> <table class="bdy" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="770"> <tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="10">
</td> <td width="440"> <!-- search:</noindex> --> <script> if(fanid.length > 0 && typeof(nflDefaultLeague)!= "undefined") { leagueId = nflDefaultLeague; //find teamId of default league (if exists) for(var i=0; i < teamsInfo.length; i++){ if(teamsInfo[4] == leagueId){ defaultTeamId = teamsInfo[0]; } } var fantasyLeaguePlayerJsPath = 'http://msnfantasy.foxsports.com' + '/nugget/200002_' + leagueId + '|||' + fanid; } </script> Let me preface my view on recruiting by saying that after spending entirely too much time pouring over this strange little world every year about now, I hate high school kids. They have their whole lives ahead of them while mine, at the ripe old age of 35, is over. They can still eat fast food without paying for it for three days after. They get to go off to college to spend the best four years of their lives in college while I'm icing my knees after fruitlessly running on the treadmill for the last three weeks.
While college football recruiting is a cute novelty, too many people make way too big a deal of it. With that said, recruiting can still be the lifeblood of a college football team. Biff the evaluation of an incoming recruiting class or two and your program hits the skids. So how should teams go about recruiting for their team?For purposes of this year's version of my exercise on how to recruit, assume I'm the recruiting coordinator of XYZ State. Unfortunately, my job is made more difficult because of the discouragement of recruiting visits with $100 handshakes and hoochie mamas shaking their booties and belly rings (my goodness do I miss college). I personally would like nothing more than to pull out the Blue Chips/He Got Game recruiting handbook on acquiring talent, but I'm not allowed to. Here's my game plan...
Step One: Hit the JUCO ranks hard for depth

When doing anything requiring speculation, whether it be recruiting, drafting, stock analysis or ordering Chinese food, the key is eliminating as many elements of chance as possible. When you recruit a high school prospect, you have to hope he can immediately get used to the collegiate life, you have to put him in a college weight room and get him to add 15 pounds of muscle, and then you have to hope he can actually play as he matures. When going after a JUCO player, you get a kid that you know is already used to collegiate life, has at least two years of maturity on high school prospects, and is more likely to be able to play right away. Essentially, you know what you're getting with a JUCO player. While you might not always get superstars and you have to go hard after the top high school talent, you'll get a nice base to provide some decent depth. However, you can't succeed long term without getting good high school talents that you can develop. Even so ... .
Step Two: Don't get too hung up on superstar high school recruits

Of course some of the high school players on everyone's list are going to be superstars, but that's not always the case. Every year there are going to be players who come out of the gates roaring, but getting a true freshman superstar requires as much luck as anything else. For example, Florida State went yard in 2001 by getting superstar prep quarterbacks Joe Mauer and Adrian McPherson. How'd that work out? Chris Rix turned out to be the quarterback for the next four years. West Virginia was all excited about getting Jason Gwaltney, but Steve Slaton turned into the impact player. If you spend too much time courting the superstars, you might lose focus on one of the several bazillion unpolished gems that are out there. Most top recruits turn out to be merely average.
Step Three: There's one position that we must go after, and go after hard

What's the toughest college football position to fill? Quarterback? Nah, they're a dime a dozen. Running back? Puh-leez. Left offensive tackle? Possibly. No, the hardest position to fill is defensive tackle. The first problem is finding guys with the needed size. The second is to find a guy with that necessary beef that has the quickness to handle the position. Most really big guys end up playing on the offensive line, and many teams try to convert offensive linemen to the defensive side or else try to pump up defensive ends. A top-notch 275-plus pound defensive tackle prospect is worth his weight in gold. Check out the best teams in America and check out their tackles; they're likely to be killers. Which leads to step four...
Step Four: Find high school linebackers that look like they can add a few pounds, and then put them on the end

It's easy to forget that we're dealing with 17- to 18-year-old bodies here. There's always room to develop, grow and improve. Personally, I believe the number one key to a winning football team is being able to get to the opposing quarterback. Rare are the college quarterbacks that can handle consistent pressure and consistent shots since they don't have the poise, or the options, to check out of plays. 99% of all college QBs can't throw on the run and when you can consistently get to the quarterback, you make life easier for the secondary. I'm not talking about necessarily finding great sack artists, but there need to be players who can get into the backfield and make quarterbacks worry. You can take a fast 2150- to 225-pound high school linebacker, bulk him up and move him to the end and make him a playmaker. However, to do this, you have to get the defensive tackles in the middle to be able to handle the run.
Step Five: Do the homework and find out which star high school players are being asked to switch positions

The star high school athletes will always play several positions. A top running back might also be the team's top defensive back. The top defensive lineman might also be a stud offensive lineman. The thing about these precocious talents is that there's always one position they really want to play. I'm not talking about the guys on the top 100 recruiting list, but maybe the next tier. Time and again a recruiter will go into a player's home and tell him that he projects to play at a certain spot. I want to find the guy that tore it up as a high school running back, wants to be a running back, but is being courted as a defensive back. I want to find the record-setting quarterback that people want to move to safety. Why did Marshall Faulk go to San Diego State? Everyone but the Aztecs wanted him as a defensive back. If you're a mid-level recruit that desperately wants to play a certain position, come to my school and play that position. If it doesn't work out, then we'll deal with it. You can never be too deep at a position.


Step Six: Don't beg

If you don't want us, we don't want you. If you need to get your butt kissed and fall for continued flattery, the chances we're getting a potentially soft drama queen will go up ten-fold. Rule number one on a team has to be that every position is always open to the best player performing at his best. For everyone involved with the program, that's the only fair policy. If you're a hotshot recruit, you'll get a chance to play right away if you've earned the job. Of course, the starting position isn't guaranteed to you. Essentially, its most important to be as upfront and honest as possible at all times with recruits. If you sell a kid something just to get him to sign, you're going to end up with a disgruntled player down the road. On the flip side, if you're a school like USC, Ohio State or Michigan that has a track record of playing freshmen in prominent spots, recruits see that and will respond.
What to look for at the positions. This doesn't necessarily apply to the top 150-type recruits that are the elite at their positions.
Everyone wants big and speedy players, but there are a limited number of them out there. Here are a few basic guidelines I want my program to follow.
Quarterback: Obviously there has to be the basics, but in today's day and age of college football, some mobility is an absolute must. Not everyone is going to be Michael Vick, but an ability to move if necessary adds a whole other element. Unless the recruit is an upper level talent like a Matt Leinart, the quarterback can't be a statue.
Running back: Breakaway speed is overrated. If a back can get five yards past the line of scrimmage with some sort of consistency, that's all that matters. The back has to be able to make the first guy miss and has to be able to follow blocks. That might sound basic, but too many backs are used to taking the ball and using their speed to make plays. In the faster college game, backs must show running back skills, patience and instincts, and not just simply be great athletes.
Receivers: Must block, must block, must block. This is one of the biggest hit-or-miss collegiate positions. Obviously, speed is at a premium and good hands are nice (although this can be worked on), but the receiver, no matter how big he is, has to at least have the potential to be a solid blocker. Most college teams are going to run more than pass, and being able to make a big block on a defensive back will be the difference between nice gains by running backs and big game breakers.
Offensive Linemen: Versatility. How many positions can the recruit potentially play? How much room is there to grow? Just because a high school prospect is 290-300 pounds, that's not necessarily a good thing. A lot of that might be fat, and he might not be athletic enough to grow into the position at the collegiate level. Unless the prospect is out-of-this world, the ideal recruit will be relatively athletic at about 255 to 270 pounds with a frame that looks like it can support an extra 15 to 20 pounds of muscle.
Defensive Linemen: As stated above, finding defensive tackle prospects is a top priority. The most time needs to be spent finding and courting them. The ends can be bulked up linebackers to provide the necessary speed.
Linebackers: Athleticism over production. At no other position does the term "football player" apply more, but slow linebackers means death to a defense. Preferably, these aren't bulked up safeties, but sideline-to-sideline linebackers. If the job has been done in getting the right defensive tackles, size at linebacker can be sacrificed for speed. If the tackles are light, the linebackers generally have to be bigger.
Safeties: Tackling ability is more important than talents in pass coverage. A college football safety will have to make more run stops than pass breakups. If a high school safety looks like he has tackling problems, he most likely won't work out even if he's a sensational athlete. There's also a chance that a good run stopping safety can be bulked up to become a great outside linebacker.
Cornerbacks: Speed, speed, speed, speed and speed. Technique can be taught, but if the corner can't stay with a fast receiver, the safety will need to provide more help and the defense will have some serious problems. Obviously everyone wants speed at defensive back, but if you have to find a relatively obscure high school receiver, quarterback or running back to get that speed, do it and hope you can teach him how to cover.
Punters and Kickers: Not enough attention is paid to this. This might be the flakiest position to recruit, but there should be as much time finding consistent kickers as is paid to the other major positions. Look at what an advantage Ohio State had in the 2002 championship season with Andy Groom and Mike Nugent. USC has had one of the best kicking games in the nation over the last few years. Considering most teams need to win with the running game, field position is a big deal.
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