sepia5;1684218; said:I'm an attorney.
It's okay.
there there....
Go get some Belgian Ale, it will be ok.
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sepia5;1684218; said:I'm an attorney.
BayBuck;1684128; said:The skepticism I refer to is of the government's ability to do the right thing, even when they are putting out the right PR and passing legislation which is purportedly doing the right thing. The follow-up question was posed, "why does politics trump religion?" and I think the answer is that the politics are bad enough that a particular religious person has a reasonable expectation that government simply cannot effect the kind of good that it says it can.
Simply passing a major healthcare reform bill isn't the "right result" if it's watered down with all the usual partisan and political garbage: if I believed this thing would be all for the good for the most people and not ultimately be a detriment to our economy and our nation, I'd support it, but I just don't believe the people who enacted it and who will implement it will make it so.
Taosman;1684187; said:"Why are so many of you against entitlement/social programs and how do you justify it?"
A big question for sure.
There seems to be some question among Christians about what defines "need".
cincibuck;1684406; said:And then there's this; The Parable of the Vineyard Workers, one where Jesus either goes Marxist or Adam Smith on us and creates a story that never fails to trouble in it's interpretation:
Matt 20:1-16"For the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who was the master of a household, who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. He went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace. To them he said, "You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you." So they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. About the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle. He said to them, "Why do you stand here all day idle?" "They said to him, "Because no one has hired us." "He said to them, "You also go into the vineyard, and you will receive whatever is right." When evening had come, the lord of the vineyard said to his steward, "Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning from the last to the first." "When those who were hired at about the eleventh hour came, they each received a denarius. When the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise each received a denarius. When they received it, they murmured against the master of the household, saying, "These last have spent one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat!" "But he answered one of them, "Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Didn't you agree with me for a denarius? Take that which is yours, and go your way. It is my desire to give to this last just as much as to you. Isn?t it lawful for me to do what I want to with what I own? Or is your eye evil, because I am good?? So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few are chosen." [SIZE=-1](web)[/SIZE]
He seems to be saying two entirely different things,l that as a landowner he can do whatever he wants with his money, and that "fair" is not necessarily based on what we commonly accept as "fair."
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1684405; said:Something that occurred to me...
For those of you who have the inherent suspicion that the Government is incapable of running "charitable" programs at an appropriate level, and who cite waste, too much money being spent on overhead, etc..
Isn't it also true that private organizations are likewise not immune from this sort of spending ... and this is just a number I'm pulling from my ass .. 80 cents on the dollar on staffing, etc? Furthermore, isn't the private charity perhaps more open to out and out corruption. (ie, thinking about the Hannity thing)
Of course, this has little to do with the original question (the role of religion) just curious about the response.
Nothing wrong with that, I suppose. But, with that said - what programs do you have fundamental problems with? Fundamental meaning "I do not support that cause" .. and leaving aside any issues of how the program is administered ... not to make lite of those concerns, just setting it aside for the purposes of the questionbuckeyegrad;1684491; said:You are absolutely correct that charitable organizations can also be corrupt and inefficient. Part of the reason my wife and I never give to the United Way, but love to give to the Salvation Army.
The nice thing about this is we get to choose to give to the organization that we believe is more efficient, more beneficial, and uses our dollar the best. With the government, we get no such choice.
buckeyegrad;1684484; said:Anyone who thinks this parable has anything to do with economics really doesn't understand it.
sepia5;1683995; said:So you simply reject the concept of separation of church and state as memorialized in the United States Constitution's religous clauses?
sepia5;1683995; said:I read this as a direct, Biblical endorsement of the State's power to tax and spend. How do you read it?
Thankssepia5;1683995; said:Well said.
cincibuck;1684406; said:And then there's this; The Parable of the Vineyard Workers, one where Jesus either goes Marxist or Adam Smith on us and creates a story that never fails to trouble in it's interpretation:
Matt 20:1-16"For the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who was the master of a household, who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. He went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace. To them he said, "You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you." So they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. About the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle. He said to them, "Why do you stand here all day idle?" "They said to him, "Because no one has hired us." "He said to them, "You also go into the vineyard, and you will receive whatever is right." When evening had come, the lord of the vineyard said to his steward, "Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning from the last to the first." "When those who were hired at about the eleventh hour came, they each received a denarius. When the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise each received a denarius. When they received it, they murmured against the master of the household, saying, "These last have spent one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat!" "But he answered one of them, "Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Didn't you agree with me for a denarius? Take that which is yours, and go your way. It is my desire to give to this last just as much as to you. Isn?t it lawful for me to do what I want to with what I own? Or is your eye evil, because I am good?? So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few are chosen." [SIZE=-1](web)[/SIZE]
He seems to be saying two entirely different things,l that as a landowner he can do whatever he wants with his money, and that "fair" is not necessarily based on what we commonly accept as "fair."