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jimotis4heisman
Banned
archie, eli or peyton?
what level is he capable of? hoying (tommy or bobby), bellisari, s jackson, smith, henne, gesser, young (steve or vince)? etc...
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I don't see the natural passing ability to reach that plateau. When you watch a kid like Ryan Mallett throw a football in high school or even as a spotty freshman, you're not sure if he'll develop into an elite quarterback, but you see flashes of an NFL franchise QB.MaxBuck;1582378; said:
Do you see that from Terrelle? I don't. But that's not because I've given up on his potential, I just think that Terrelle's potential to be special is packaged a bit differently, and probably doesn't translate well to the next level. I see a player who has the ability to overcome his weaknesses and become a dynamic dual-threat quarterback, but I'm not convinced he can become a surgeon from the pocket.
I don't think he has enough time, either, to become a superior passer. He arrived at OSU about 15 months ago without much if any proper coaching at the position. He has 26 months left in an OSU uniform.
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NateG
Can't waste the day when the night brings a hearse
OregonBuckeye;1582372; said:
I looked like Collaros just heaved all of his touchdown passes. I don't know if it was just me but I felt like that kid lucked out on the replays I saw. Maybe someone has some better film of him but he heaves it up and his WR's are like a foot taller than the competition so they go up and get it. Not really that good of mechanics, just backyard football.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggm4QbHIu30]YouTube - Armon Binns 2nd touchdown vs Syracuse[/ame]
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jimotis4heisman
Banned
yup, just heaved it up, two games in a row.
NCAA DIVISION I FOOTBALL
15-17 253 yards 3tds
22-28 295 yards 4tds
granted youd be better off with the "system quarterback" argument...
NCAA DIVISION I FOOTBALL
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BrutusMaximus;1582026; said:
BrutusMaximus;1581919; said:But one thing that I think is a problem on BP, is that there is an incorrect definition of "bashing". If I said. "Pryor sucks, he will never get better, bench him". That is bashing. However, not being 100% positive seems to be considered bashing by several mods/admins/etc. I have NEVER bashed TP, JT, Brutus, Joe Germaine, Earl Bruce, or any other Buckeye.
Really? I know you are intelligent...much more intelligent than this facetious BS is implying. Therefore, I'll take these posts with a grain of salt and a realization of your frustration.
If you really want to have a decent discussion on BP's definition of bashing and your personal behavior vs. our leniency to your often overly negative game thread posting, we can do so in PM.
However, I do expect more from you regardless of your frustration. These posts are garbage cheapshots.
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NateG
Can't waste the day when the night brings a hearse
jimotis4heisman;1582441; said:
Part of my argument was he ran around in the backfield on more than just that pass for guys to get open against Syracuse. Plus the size of the WR's over the DB's was blatantly obvious. Binns has to be realistically a foot taller than the guys guarding him. All of his TD passes from last week looked like the video I posted. The first Binns was so wide open I could have thrown the pass to him, then the fake FG he REALLY heaved it up and got lucky then he had the vid above. I'm not saying his percentage wasn't good, but I thought when they kept doing game breaks on ESPN that he'd have gotten 2-3 int's against a decent team. So maybe it is more that the Big East teams he played (Louis, Syra (0-3/3-5 each)) have less than bad pass defense and he has at least one tall WR. I did watch the Louis highlight and saw one good throw for a TD but the other was another running throw against his body that gets picked against 2 good safeties. Oh Well. I don't think it matters. If he is the QB in their bowl game I bet they get beat.
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jimotis4heisman
Banned
if having your qb throw the ball not only long and high into the back of the endzone and where only his guy can catch it is wrong, then so many coaches are wrong. ive seen ohio state against some similarly poor teams this year and they werent effective. who knows, its a bowl game, who knows who/where they might play, that being said that throw is not "mere luck" and toss in both his starts are better than anything weve seen this year...
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billmac91
Head Coach
jwinslow;1582387; said:
I've made a similar point to some people.....it just isn't natural. He's an amazing athlete playing QB, but nothing about it is natural. He may throw a few pretty balls, but the delivery and mechanics are just awkward....and there have been been plenty of succesful QB's from college to the NFL with funky releases, but they at least seemed athletic or fluid. Phillip Rivers throws it awkward, but it isn't awkward in the same sense as Terrelle. Vince Young didn't have great mechanics, but his throwing motion looked athletic and natural. And Vince threw a pretty ball 95% of the time....I don't remeber him floating too many passes, or throwing many ducks. His accuracy was always questioned, but velocity and delivery were generally solid. Terrelle's feet, and body placement obviously need to get better, but it just seems he's working with a lot less natural physical tools a QB normally has.
I think Terrelle can be amazingly effective as a college QB....I still think this offense is a square peg and round hole though. I'd be surprised if Terrelle ever became a franchise QB.
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NateG
Can't waste the day when the night brings a hearse
jimotis4heisman;1582456; said:
I was merely talking about what I have SEEN... I didn't get to watch all four quarters of both games. I only got the priviledge of watching the kid's 5 TD's on replay. 3 were running around in the backfield then throwing it deep and the WR made a play and 1 was a 8 yard pass that Binns ran for 70 yards. I can't talk for what the rest of the game looked like. I don't know if you watched the rest of the games or if you just looked at stats and took it as a solid QB. I don't know. And I don't care. I doubt anyone remembers who this Collaros kid is in 2 weeks when Pike comes back. Like I said, after I watched the Louis highlight he did have one good step into his throw pass on the money. But I think it is funny to say the coaches set up the other plays to just throw it up there to a point and hope your WR can get it. And Syracuse pass defense-117th and Louisville's-69th. NMSU-30th.
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MaxBuck
SoCal, Baby!
I really don't see an awkward delivery when I look at Pryor. And his balls generally look very good; it's just that so many of them are thrown to receivers who aren't open, or thrown to an ill-advised location.billmac91;1582457; said:
When I think of awkward-looking, or "un-pretty" balls, I think of Craig Krenzel. But he seems to have found a way to be pretty successful as a college QB.
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BrutusMaximus
I Heart Boobs
Appologies to the mods and admins. My posts made it sound like they are all a facist regime here. Not what I was trying to say at all.
Anyway, back to TP.
Perfect Deep ball? really?
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billmac91
Head Coach
MaxBuck;1582478; said:I really don't see an awkward delivery when I look at Pryor. And his balls generally look very good; it's just that so many of them are thrown to receivers who aren't open, or thrown to an ill-advised location.
When I think of awkward-looking, or "un-pretty" balls, I think of Craig Krenzel. But he seems to have found a way to be pretty successful as a college QB.
Meh. We must be looking at 2 different things. I think the throwing movement is awkaward, and the release of the ball is even more concerning. Its just awkward on a lot of levels.....he has a strong arm, yes. But his inconsistency based on mechanics and his throwing motion are almost impossible to overcome based on his skillset as a QB.
Another weird comparison...but when I look at a golf swing like Jim Furyk, it doesn't look clssic, but it looks fluid and athletic. Again, I just don't se any fluidity or athleticism in Terrelle Pryor's throwing motion. His athleticism is sick, but as a thrower, it isn't natural. His skillset seems limited to me. But in the right offense, I think he can be extremely dangerous, a Heisman contender, and I think his value would go up in NFL potential based on college production.
The 5 wide and 4 wide sets, asking Terrelle to read a defense just isn't where it is at, IMO.
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I'm going to reserve judgment on TP until his Sr year.
I didn't see anything in 2004 from Troy Smith that forecast he would dissect defenses with surgical precision in 2006, but somewhere midway through the 2005 season the light went on, and the tales of his taking film to Daniels and Bollman became the stuff of lore by the time his career was through.
TP has more physical ability than 90% of D1A starters. It's all in his head. He has to decide he wants to become a pocket passer and film room junkie, and when he does, if he ever does, he could be a great one. Right now, I think he thinks he knows what he's looking at when he's watching film, but he doesn't. Not yet.
One thing I saw against NMSU -- and I think it's significant even though it was NMSU -- was that he finally showed a true full-speed running gait on two of his scrambles, including a little stutter step/setting up the stiff arm on a LB, which I had never, ever seen from him before. I think he's beginning to turn the corner.
The question is whether the level of competition over these next three weeks allows us to see him blossom this year, or if we'll have to wait until next year.
I'm confident the OSU staff can get him there ... will get him there.
I didn't see anything in 2004 from Troy Smith that forecast he would dissect defenses with surgical precision in 2006, but somewhere midway through the 2005 season the light went on, and the tales of his taking film to Daniels and Bollman became the stuff of lore by the time his career was through.
TP has more physical ability than 90% of D1A starters. It's all in his head. He has to decide he wants to become a pocket passer and film room junkie, and when he does, if he ever does, he could be a great one. Right now, I think he thinks he knows what he's looking at when he's watching film, but he doesn't. Not yet.
One thing I saw against NMSU -- and I think it's significant even though it was NMSU -- was that he finally showed a true full-speed running gait on two of his scrambles, including a little stutter step/setting up the stiff arm on a LB, which I had never, ever seen from him before. I think he's beginning to turn the corner.
The question is whether the level of competition over these next three weeks allows us to see him blossom this year, or if we'll have to wait until next year.
I'm confident the OSU staff can get him there ... will get him there.
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