Poor Fan Behavior

[buckeyefool]

hmmm i dont think he is using it as an excuse but i see what he is saying about the time period being messed up. students had more freedom to do as they pleased and during the vietnam period there was probably a high increase of college students that kind of changed the pace of things. i see what your saying but the war is kind of an outside factor causing increased violence ala kent state.

What are you talking about that they had more freedom to do as they pleased, and how did they change the pace of things? Or is this another one of your well back then they were not as smart as now, like you tried to argue a few posts back with what happened in the 1990's at the school.

 

[Jeffcat]

So you are saying all the "dumb" students caused all the problems 10 years ago but now it is just people from other schools?

Wrong.

I was at osu from 1994 to 1999. There were problems then but once again to try to blame it on the students would be wrong. Were students involved? yup. But there are plenty of people who live or visit that area that don't go to osu that were causing problems. So make comments like well now that there are smarter kids here it doesnt cause as many problems is just stupid.

Part of the problem then was the media blew some stuff way up also. The only thing that could probally be a "riot" would ahve been the earthday party where all of 12th was shut down and cars got flip[ped and set on fire. Other than that is was a bunch of drunk kids out of control...but nothing like a "riot"

and there hasnt been anything since a riot on campus here since 2002 and before that 2001 was a pretty rough year. i never said all the problems or all the people. my point is the campus has changed immensely for the better by increasing the standard of living and education around campus. its a broad generalization but the higher up you go the better the behavior of the people. many of the people that cause problems are the deadbeat ones that back their way into the university like i said. they dont come to ohio state based upon their educational goals or really to even follow the athletics that well. all they care about is staying off academic probation, skipping class to get smammered, doing drugs, and once football season comes around they become bandwagoners and find any excuse possible to create a huge scene. raising the academic guidelines can help this cause. benefits cannot really be seen completely year because this years freshman class and from then on are feeling the effects of it but for the most part the newer undergrad students seems pretty classy and they have the gateway bars(for future), theatres, restaraunts, and a new BW3's coming in with panini's and miani's. some of them even get shuttle to sugar, brothers, and so on. im currently living with some garbage that backed their way into this university so i know how it works. ive just seen better fan behavior and activity from the students. with that being said im sure a lot of people from outside the university caused problems while you were in school as well but all in all those other students or people had to come down here for a reason and/or to see somebody so i expect to see a bit of a change in the social networking of the newer students. i personally can see an improvement already but i think the real effects will be felt as soon as next year so im just hoping it all works out.

 

[Jeffcat]

What are you talking about that they had more freedom to do as they pleased, and how did they change the pace of things? Or is this another one of your well back then they were not as smart as now, like you tried to argue a few posts back with what happened in the 1990's at the school.

because it was the vietnam war. the increase of college students over that time period was enormous and really probably the biggest there has ever been. it opened up the doors for a lot of the current day branch campuses. there was a lot of public outcry over the war and drug usage was definitely higher than what it is today due to stricter enforcement of drugs in this day and age.

 

[buckeyefool]

and there hasnt been anything since a riot on campus here since 2002 and before that 2001 was a pretty rough year. i never said all the problems or all the people. my point is the campus has changed immensely for the better by increasing the standard of living and education around campus. its a broad generalization but the higher up you go the better the behavior of the people. many of the people that cause problems are the deadbeat ones that back their way into the university like i said. they dont come to ohio state based upon their educational goals or really to even follow the athletics that well. all they care about is staying off academic probation, skipping class to get smammered, doing drugs, and once football season comes around they become bandwagoners and find any excuse possible to create a huge scene. raising the academic guidelines can help this cause. benefits cannot really be seen completely year because this years freshman class and from then on are feeling the effects of it but for the most part the newer undergrad students seems pretty classy and they have the gateway bars(for future), theatres, restaraunts, and a new BW3's coming in with panini's and miani's. some of them even get shuttle to sugar, brothers, and so on. im currently living with some garbage that backed their way into this university so i know how it works. ive just seen better fan behavior and activity from the students. with that being said im sure a lot of people from outside the university caused problems while you were in school as well but all in all those other students or people had to come down here for a reason and/or to see somebody so i expect to see a bit of a change in the social networking of the newer students. i personally can see an improvement already but i think the real effects will be felt as soon as next year so im just hoping it all works out.

Actually every year the student population has gotten a little better. Let me ask you something if it was from students "backing in" as you call it, how come there were very few reported problems in the 80's when the school was total open admission,, and basicly anyone could come here?

If you look at the facts, allot of the problems started when bars in the south campus area started to close down and before the brewery district began to really grow, so studnets had few options on where to go, other than a party in the street, which of course is going to get out of control.

Are you saying that the students before weren't "classy" as you put it. Please give me a break, don't sit here and act like the students today are perfect little angels. To sit here and act like it is all about acedemics is just dumb. Lots of factors play into the situation, having areas that the students can go and have a good time is important, and that is part of what the arena and gateway district does is provided a place where students can have fun, but in a organized enviroment rather than a orange fence built around a house. That is what keeps kids from causing a ton of problems, not their gpa's

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Wow, how come we can't have meaningful, in-depth discussions like this in the Poli Forum?

 

[Jeffcat]

Wow, how come we can't have meaningful, in-depth discussions like this in the Poli Forum?

Politics.....screw that noise

 

[zincfinger]

i just find it comical that the generation that says "rioting is bad" had rioting as a trademark of thier college days...

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people, of whatever age, who consider rioting to be a bad thing (i.e. nearly everybody), never actually engaged in rioting themselves.

 

[Jeffcat]

Wow, how come we can't have meaningful, in-depth discussions like this in the Poli Forum?

Politics.....screw that noise

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Good point. But maybe apples and oranges? The Viet Nam war demonstrations were part of a larger social transition as the Boomers came of age.

Some of the 1960s and 1970s student riots can be traced to police over-reaction. Police brutality was an issue at times and police turned some protests into riots, after they attacked peaceful protesters who clearly were within their rights to demonstrate.

The hippies were probably responsible for 7 out of 10 episodes. Heck, I can remember people sitting on top of Taylor Tower throwing baggies full of excrement down on the cops below. If you're on the receiving end of that little flower, I don't think you feel overwhelmed by peace and love.

So, good point. We demonstrated and there were riots.

But where is the social issue behind the drunken riots at Ohio State after football games? I don't understand how these are comparable. I can't ever remember people pulling other folks couches off their porch and burning them during the Viet Nam war demonstrations.

We were naive and stupid back then, much of the time. All I know is that the riots at Ohio State have really hurt the image of the University and Columbus.

very good points. though what is the line bewtween demonstrating and rioting? (this is a thread worthy topic too, as it is really interesting the social issues involved, pretty much the two previous generations (ww1 and ww2) had no childhood/growing up teen area as the way the timing worked. on and on... probably millions of views and most of them reasonable and relevant.

that being said one of my references was the 1961 rose bowl demonstration/riot. a situation where i believe it is now said bonfires were lit and students gathered. the realities are people were burning anything they can find. running around and burning effigies. harrassment of everyone who voted. a march downtown that resembled shermans march to the sea as all kinds of violence occurred. (ill look for a link for you who dont know, i dont seem to be having much luck)

the 60swerent exempt from post game anitcs after big football games. in the 70s you have a time when thurs and fris were spent in prep of football games. all those chains fences would be removed, dumpster all being emptied and what not. its nothing new. its bad yes. but these young hooligans didnt invent it as some (of both generational sets) claim.

back to the vietnam thing also. you have a situation where students often times werent the insitgators. outside forces/people would come in incite the issue and use it for gain. likewise you see the same thing at football games today. you see it at ous halloween etc. kids show up with the mentality you can go get bombed and do what ever you want. this is one reason i think the if you get in trouble for major stuff on any ohio public campus its the same as on your campus law.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

http://www.wosu.org/archive/woody/controversy.php

part of the discussion

The demonstrations began. Students burned members of the faculty in effigy, snake-danced down the main street, surrounded the capitol building, broke windows, besieged and insulted their professors and “generally raised the most hell that has been raised in Columbus since V-J day. The local TV and radio stations, without exception, joined in the denunciation of the anti-Rose Bowl faculty members, some of them in violent terms. The Columbus Dispatch printed a list of those professors voting against the’“joyous trip to California,’ complete with addresses [and] salaries. The result was that the offending professors were jeered, scowled at, browbeaten, telephoned day and night and greeted with messages in Anglo-Saxon monosyllables on blackboards all over the campus.”

 

[Jeffcat]

http://www.wosu.org/archive/woody/controversy.php

part of the discussion

wow that is pretty harsh shows how much laws have evolved since then

 

[OH10]

21 days in jail is not enough IMO. A stronger message needed to be sent.

Remember the arson fire on campus a couple of years ago that claimed 7 lives? It can happen again if these morons only have to spend three weeks in jail.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

21 days in jail is not enough IMO. A stronger message needed to be sent.

Remember the arson fire on campus a couple of years ago that claimed 7 lives? It can happen again if these morons only have to spend three weeks in jail.

setting a couch on fire and fire bombing a house are kind of different in my eyes.

like i said i know a problem is there. but, what is the best way to deal with it. thats what i want to know. is putting a kid in jail for three weeks going to stop a kid from burning a couch next time. is it different when some kid at ou just burns a couch to burn a couch?

the thing i did notice this year at the michigan game was campus was lit up like a christmas tree. yes they brought in those big light kits. what if they increased the lighting all over campus and the campus area. i think every student would like this. what if they established a beat system of patrolling (or shall i say reestablish) where you had on high volume nights (thurs, fri, sat) you had a couple of police officers walk, ride bikes/horses etc to establish a presence and familarize the kids with them. thus creating a situation where cops and kids work together rather than as it has been seen in the past.

i mean lots of ways to fix this, i just dont see putting one kid in jail for 21 days to send a message is the best way.

 

[Jeffcat]

Actually every year the student population has gotten a little better. Let me ask you something if it was from students "backing in" as you call it, how come there were very few reported problems in the 80's when the school was total open admission,, and basicly anyone could come here?

If you look at the facts, allot of the problems started when bars in the south campus area started to close down and before the brewery district began to really grow, so studnets had few options on where to go, other than a party in the street, which of course is going to get out of control.

Are you saying that the students before weren't "classy" as you put it. Please give me a break, don't sit here and act like the students today are perfect little angels. To sit here and act like it is all about acedemics is just dumb. Lots of factors play into the situation, having areas that the students can go and have a good time is important, and that is part of what the arena and gateway district does is provided a place where students can have fun, but in a organized enviroment rather than a orange fence built around a house. That is what keeps kids from causing a ton of problems, not their gpa's

the main topic im addressing is how the university has changed in the past decade or so. like many others said there are so many changes that really are not pertinent to what im even addressing which is the riot/drug usage/violence among the student body. this past year all went well besides the texas game and that looks like a mickey mouse operation compared to the situation after the 02 osu-michigan game and the 01 chittfest, 13th ave incident in which case riot squads came fully decked out with tear gas and batons and used them to their disgression(and rightfully so in most scenarios). a police unit getting involved in an off campus activity is about to be expected at a major university. the only discerning difference i see from any other university is our image of fires and couch burning. ive personally seen an improvement from then by policing being increased, penalties stiffened, and after the osu-michigan game last year i can stand pretty solidly and say it went off better than anybody could have expected. one way to explain this would be the enforcement which im sure played a large part but the students have to comply still and from previous events the students didnt despite riot police being on their doorstep. more fires were started, bottles and objects were thrown at the officers, and more cars were vandalized. what creates such a decrease in the amount of violence and burning these days? like i said i see it as the higher standard of living and education of the students evolving to more classy norms than the higher amounts of people that were able to just waltz into the university with below average academic standing just to get a watered down degree or drop out and still live around campus just to drink and cause trouble. in example you could use the dublin high school system as an example for the little amount of crime being committed in the area and their obviously high standard of living and their excellent school systems. you have to understand im looking at this to gain some respect of the people outside the university and so is the USG by starting their best fans in the land campaign. im not singling out you while you were in college or your friends but when you look at the whole university as one and look where it stands it sets the bar and people will want to aspire to that bar to be part of it. the biggest issue is dealing with being the largest public university and that out of the thousands of students only one group of osu or non-osu students have to start a problem in order for the media and outside world to feed the negative image of osu.

the 80s issue is interesting though. i really couldnt tell you whats all part of that because i wasnt there but one could infer that the economy was in a recession, the war had ended, and a lot of vets were getting govt spending towards a college education for jobs so thats just my take. theres a gazillion situational factors there just as there is today so ill let somebody that was here in the 80s give their opinion on the matter.

 

[Jeffcat]

setting a couch on fire and fire bombing a house are kind of different in my eyes.

like i said i know a problem is there. but, what is the best way to deal with it. thats what i want to know. is putting a kid in jail for three weeks going to stop a kid from burning a couch next time. is it different when some kid at ou just burns a couch to burn a couch?

the thing i did notice this year at the michigan game was campus was lit up like a christmas tree. yes they brought in those big light kits. what if they increased the lighting all over campus and the campus area. i think every student would like this. what if they established a beat system of patrolling (or shall i say reestablish) where you had on high volume nights (thurs, fri, sat) you had a couple of police officers walk, ride bikes/horses etc to establish a presence and familarize the kids with them. thus creating a situation where cops and kids work together rather than as it has been seen in the past.

i mean lots of ways to fix this, i just dont see putting one kid in jail for 21 days to send a message is the best way.

i think it sends a message but i agree with you that it is not the best one. the university passed a bill last year to begin adding more lighting around darker campus areas. i personally think a problem kinda is not having the university police force patrol split up so much from the columbus police department but thats fully understandable there so i wont go there. the lighting up of chittenden during the michigan game worked well but i dont see it being effective over time nor really that possible. however i think another lighting bill might be on slate to better light the chittenden and 11th ave areas because while the gateway area was put in they never really changed much of the housing initially. now a lot of the homes have been or are remodeled and in a desirable location but the lighting is still pretty weak as of now.