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Penn State Cult (Joe Knew)

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BuckeyeNation27 said:
Since the whole world revolves around Penn State football......you'll all be happy to know that, according to the dipshits at my dad's news stand, we have Penn State to thank for showing Ohio State how to handle a coaching scandal.
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As the resident Penn State fan who occasionally posts in this thread, I'll say this:

1. I am not proud of Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier and Tim Curley. But I am generally (NOT universally) satisfied with how our BoT acted in November 2011 and July 2012. Joe Paterno deserved to be fired in November 2011 and the BoT pulled the trigger. They commissioned the Freeh Report. They didn't fight a protracted battle w/ the NCAA that summer.

2. I'll give credit to Ohio State's BoT here. They commissioned an investigation. They publicly releasing the report. On that latter point, they did infinitely better than Baylor did. +1 for transparency.

3. I read the report. After reading, I thought there were several reasons that would have absolutely justified OSU firing Urban Meyer. I don't think it's as ridiculous to say that there were as many smoking guns in that report (e.g., offenses that would justify firing Meyer) as there were smoking guns that implicated JoePa/Spanier/et al in PSU's Freeh Report.

4. That OSU didn't fire Meyer? Fair enough. In 2011/2012, I thought PSU alums and PSU students was more important than the opinion of people not related to PSU (as regards what should be done w/ Paterno, the statue, et al). In this case, the opinion of OSU alums and OSU students here is more important than my opinion. It's not my school.

5. Whatever happened here over the last 3 weeks has nothing to do with Ohio State's greater "culture." It's still a very good school and it's a tremendous asset to the state of Ohio (where I once lived). People who take incidents like this, or incidents like PSU's scandal in November 2011-July 2012, and make greater sweeping statements about a school's "culture" are "tribalists" and people who I don't agree with.

6. Life, as always, goes on. Good luck in the football season ahead.
 
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409fold said:
As the resident Penn State fan who occasionally posts in this thread, I'll say this:

1. I am not proud of Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier and Tim Curley. But I am generally (NOT universally) satisfied with how our BoT acted in November 2011 and July 2012. Joe Paterno deserved to be fired in November 2011 and the BoT pulled the trigger. They commissioned the Freeh Report. They didn't fight a protracted battle w/ the NCAA that summer.

2. I'll give credit to Ohio State's BoT here. They commissioned an investigation. They publicly releasing the report. On that latter point, they did infinitely better than Baylor did. +1 for transparency.

3. I read the report. After reading, I thought there were several reasons that would have absolutely justified OSU firing Urban Meyer. I don't think it's as ridiculous to say that there were as many smoking guns in that report (e.g., offenses that would justify firing Meyer) as there were smoking guns that implicated JoePa/Spanier/et al in PSU's Freeh Report.

4. That OSU didn't fire Meyer? Fair enough. In 2011/2012, I thought PSU alums and PSU students was more important than the opinion of people not related to PSU (as regards what should be done w/ Paterno, the statue, et al). In this case, the opinion of OSU alums and OSU students here is more important than my opinion. It's not my school.

5. Whatever happened here over the last 3 weeks has nothing to do with Ohio State's greater "culture." It's still a very good school and it's a tremendous asset to the state of Ohio (where I once lived). People who take incidents like this, or incidents like PSU's scandal in November 2011-July 2012, and make greater sweeping statements about a school's "culture" are "tribalists" and people who I don't agree with.

6. Life, as always, goes on. Good luck in the football season ahead.
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Uh, you forgot something .

BEAT NEBRASKA!
 
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409fold said:
3. I read the report. After reading, I thought there were several reasons that would have absolutely justified OSU firing Urban Meyer. I don't think it's as ridiculous to say that there were as many smoking guns in that report (e.g., offenses that would justify firing Meyer) as there were smoking guns that implicated JoePa/Spanier/et al in PSU's Freeh Report.
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Dismissing the nature of the alleged incidents to begin with.... what exactly? Deleting some texts?
Whatever was or wasn't going on in their household was in their household... not in Ohio State's locker room.
Whatever was or wasn't going on involved adults perfectly capable of reporting to police... not minors.
And the police were called numerous times without charges ever being pressed or evidence to do anything.

So... Urban was aware that there were a lot of seemingly false allegations against an assistant coach that cheated on his wife? He was informed of the likely bogus nature by the PD.
I agree Zach should have been fired a long time ago.

But I'm struggling how any of that is remotely comparable to Paterno et. al. giving McQueary a job in exchange for his silence witnessing known rape of minors in Penn State's locker room for decades... continuing to give that guy access to Penn State, and in knowledge that he's using a charity to gain access to kids with no adults around to protect them.
 
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Now that the news is out of 300 Catholic priests abusing more than 1,000 and possibly 2,000 boys since 1940, primarily in Central and Western Pennsylvania, I am trying to understand what the heck is wrong with these folks.

Perhaps it can be explained by a simple degrees of separation argument. Consider 1000 child abuse victims, who are part of 1000 households. Assume that, on average, the victim and only one other person in their family know that they were abused or strongly suspect it. That means 2000 people are abused or know/suspect that a member of the household was abused, with all of the social stigma attached to that.

Now assume that each of those two people in each household will know 100 unique others in their lifetime. Abuse and knowledge of it causes people to act irrationally, to become violent, and show many other harmful behaviors toward themselves and others. That means that 400,000 people (2,000 x 200) will have had social interactions in life with someone who had been abused or aware that a loved one had been abused.

If each of these people (the ones who were abused, the just one person in their family who knew or suspected it, and the 100 people they went to school with, married, dated, worked with, etc.) knew just 15 or 20 people in life, then this would exceed the entire population of Central and Western Pennsylvania. Of course, they would also know many more people.

So, each abused child is really less than two degrees of separation away that entire population. It is stunning when you think about it that way and think about the harm that a child abuser can do to society at large.
 
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Steve19 said:
Now that the news is out of 300 Catholic priests abusing more than 1,000 and possibly 2,000 boys since 1940, primarily in Central and Western Pennsylvania, I am trying to understand what the heck is wrong with these folks.

Perhaps it can be explained by a simple degrees of separation argument. Consider 1000 child abuse victims, who are part of 1000 households. Assume that, on average, the victim and only one other person in their family know that they were abused or strongly suspect it. That means 2000 people are abused or know/suspect that a member of the household was abused, with all of the social stigma attached to that.

Now assume that each of those two people in each household will know 100 unique others in their lifetime. Abuse and knowledge of it causes people to act irrationally, to become violent, and show many other harmful behaviors toward themselves and others. That means that 400,000 people (2,000 x 200) will have had social interactions in life with someone who had been abused or aware that a loved one had been abused.

If each of these people (the ones who were abused, the just one person in their family who knew or suspected it, and the 100 people they went to school with, married, dated, worked with, etc.) knew just 15 or 20 people in life, then this would exceed the entire population of Central and Western Pennsylvania. Of course, they would also know many more people.

So, each abused child is really less than two degrees of separation away that entire population. It is stunning when you think about it that way and think about the harm that a child abuser can do to society at large.
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Nobody told me there would be math.

Interesting point nonetheless.
 
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Steve19 said:
Now that the news is out of 300 Catholic priests abusing more than 1,000 and possibly 2,000 boys since 1940, primarily in Central and Western Pennsylvania, I am trying to understand what the heck is wrong with these folks.

Perhaps it can be explained by a simple degrees of separation argument. Consider 1000 child abuse victims, who are part of 1000 households. Assume that, on average, the victim and only one other person in their family know that they were abused or strongly suspect it. That means 2000 people are abused or know/suspect that a member of the household was abused, with all of the social stigma attached to that.

Now assume that each of those two people in each household will know 100 unique others in their lifetime. Abuse and knowledge of it causes people to act irrationally, to become violent, and show many other harmful behaviors toward themselves and others. That means that 400,000 people (2,000 x 200) will have had social interactions in life with someone who had been abused or aware that a loved one had been abused.

If each of these people (the ones who were abused, the just one person in their family who knew or suspected it, and the 100 people they went to school with, married, dated, worked with, etc.) knew just 15 or 20 people in life, then this would exceed the entire population of Central and Western Pennsylvania. Of course, they would also know many more people.

So, each abused child is really less than two degrees of separation away that entire population. It is stunning when you think about it that way and think about the harm that a child abuser can do to society at large.
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Since learning of the PSU alum that got caught at Yale, and the incident in the 60s involving a murder at the library where several "persons of interest" (including faculty) had other ... interesting... secrets .... I've long suspected this is a PA problem of which Penn State is culturally entangled in.
 
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