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PBS Special on Mormon Church

Prophet Joseph Smith's Motive in Founding Religion:

  • Big flat screen TVs not invented. Had to pass time.

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Recite news of Angel Moroni and the Golden Tablets

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • Could hump young local babes w/out wife objecting

    Votes: 13 68.4%
  • Received vision that it was too soon for Scientology

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .
jwinslow;833008; said:
You're dodging his arguments by asking another question... LDS has many major diversions from Christian theology. Could you address those points he raised? He's made a ton of them, yet you haven't addressed any.

If LDS theology is not in disagreement with Christian theology, then where are the specific rebuttals for his objections?

which "christian theology would you recommend I choose? since there are probably over 10000 different christian churches out there with dfferent teaching, which one is right?

All I am saying is, looking at the definition of a christian, how am I not one, other than the reason that another church says Im not. If I call a Catholic are not christians, does that mean it is so? He brought up the trinity, do ALL chiristian churches profess that to be true -- let alone even understand the concept?
 
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afgolfer;833005; said:
I just find it funny that you would say that I am not a christian just because another church doesnt think we are. what is your definition of a christian and why is it so important to say that i am not one? We take upon us the name of JESUS CHRIST.

Golf, you and your buds can adopt a belief that it is right and proper to spend your time clothed from head to toe - 24/7 - in Pendleton Woolen clothes. But - if you do - and because of that belief you call yourselves "nudists", I'd have to disagree. Now it does not really matter so much that you call yourself a nudist, and it does not really matter so much that I would disagree. But you have to realize that the term "nudist" is rather well known and somewhat specific. It does not mean people who constantly wear wool clothing from head to toe.

In like manner, it does not matter that your church calls itself a "Christian" church, because "Christian" has a similarly long established meaning, and it does not include folks who think that God used to be a man on another planet and that men can become Gods on other planets. Sorry. Ya see, that word "Christian" has two thousand years of meaning, and that stuff that you have every right to believe just happens not to be what Christians think, when you dig past the rhetoric.
 
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afgolfer;833015; said:
Im asking for his definition of a christian and yours -- every different denomiation has different doctrines so what makes them christian, but not Me.

You make a good point, Golf, that there are still differences in denominational theology. Take communion. Catholics can take it in my church, I can't in a Catholic Church. Presbyterians have a certain representative goverance style, electing representatives to run the church business. Congregationalists do not elect representatives, they have a true democracy and majority rule. Those are indeed differences. But we call ourselves Christians.

You recognize Jesus, although you honor him and think of him in a way that we do not. By way of example, If you believed in the full pantheon of Norse Gods - Thor, Odin, Baldur, etc. - and also added Jesus, the mere fact that you have Jesus as a recognized figure in your church would not make your Norse centered religion a "Christian" one. The differences are too great when you look at the whole range of theological beliefs.

In like manner, the LDS beliefs are simply too afar afield of traditional beliefs for you to be considered "Christian" by the 99% of mainstream Christian Churches who do not feel like you LDS folks do - that a God with a physical body had sex with Mary to create Jesus, or that Jesus and Satan had a competition over who whose plan of salvation would win. Your thoughts are as interesting, valid, acceptable etc., as mine are...but you are not what the world considers Christian, as that term is universally known. It is not a means of dissing, it is just a fact of universal recognition of what a certain term means.
 
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afgolfer;831968; said:
not to bring up otehr religions, but i dont hear eople attacking the catholic church because they dont have woman priests? as a matter of fact they rarely if ever allow married men to be called Father.... ( I know of two when I was growing up)

okay, i'll play ball. the Roman Church is both the Beast and Mystery Babylon, the Great Whore in Revelation. and the Pope is the antichrist.
mormons, although misguided, pale in comparison.
does that make you feel better?
 
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lvbuckeye;833032; said:
okay, i'll play ball. the Roman Church is both the Beast and Mystery Babylon, the Great Whore in Revelation. and the Pope is the antichrist.
mormons, although misguided, pale in comparison.
does that make you feel better?

I dont know where that came from, I thought it was a good reference in condemning my church for not having woman lead the church. All I was getting at is that we are not alone.
 
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Gatorubet;833026; said:
You make a good point, Golf, that there are still differences in denominational theology. Take communion. Catholics can take it in my church, I can't in a Catholic Church. Presbyterians have a certain representative goverance style, electing representatives to run the church business. Congregationalists do not elect representatives, they have a true democracy and majority rule. Those are indeed differences. But we call ourselves Christians.

You recognize Jesus, although you honor him and think of him in a way that we do not. By way of example, If you believed in the full pantheon of Norse Gods - Thor, Odin, Baldur, etc. - and also added Jesus, the mere fact that you have Jesus as a recognized figure in your church would not make your Norse centered religion a "Christian" one. The differences are too great when you look at the whole range of theological beliefs.

In like manner, the LDS beliefs are simply too afar afield of traditional beliefs for you to be considered "Christian" by the 99% of mainstream Christian Churches who do not feel like you LDS folks do - that a God with a physical body had sex with Mary to create Jesus, or that Jesus and Satan had a competition over who whose plan of salvation would win. Your thoughts are as interesting, valid, acceptable etc., as mine are...but you are not what the world considers Christian, as that term is universally known. It is not a means of dissing, it is just a fact of universal recognition of what a certain term means.

So you recognize there are differences in theology and say that you have the right to call yourselfves christiians, but deny anothers (mine) when Christ is the foundation of my belief and religion. When i say a prayer I open in the name of the father in heaven and close in the name of Jesus Christ as it is through him that I am able to repent.

Yes we recognize him, HE is the cornerstone of our religion -- without him there is no atonement.

Then you say that if a church "recognized him and others it is not the same" I would agree if a church looked at him a as another prophet or "god guy".. We look at him as the mesiah -- our savior, the savior of all. I dont see how we look at him differently.

You still have not told me what a christian is, only that i am not one.

I will admit, that that is the first time I have heard about God and mary in the literal sense and I will research it --but that still doesnt diminish my belief in Jesus Christ.

again i ask, why are we here and how did we come to be?
 
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afgolfer;833056; said:
So you recognize there are differences in theology and say that you have the right to call yourselfves christiians, but deny anothers (mine) when Christ is the foundation of my belief and religion. When i say a prayer I open in the name of the father in heaven and close in the name of Jesus Christ as it is through him that I am able to repent.

Yes we recognize him, HE is the cornerstone of our religion -- without him there is no atonement.

Then you say that if a church "recognized him and others it is not the same" I would agree if a church looked at him a as another prophet or "god guy".. We look at him as the mesiah -- our savior, the savior of all. I dont see how we look at him differently.

You still have not told me what a christian is, only that i am not one.

I will admit, that that is the first time I have heard about God and mary in the literal sense and I will research it --but that still doesnt diminish my belief in Jesus Christ.

again i ask, why are we here and how did we come to be?


OK, I will try it again. The Nation of Islam are known as the "Black Muslims" They pray to Allah. But they think that a scientist names Yacub created "devil" white people out of germs, germs from black men, but only using the brown germs until the gems were white. The true race of earth is black, and they will be coming back on their space ships to earth to stop the white devils. Now Golf, they call themselves "Muslim". Many other Muslims take exception to that, as they do not think that anyone with a story about germs and spaceships and such have anything to do with Muslims than the improper use of the name. So the Nation of Islam can be known as the Black Muslims all they want. But the majority of Muslims who do not buy the space silliness refuse to agree.

So feel free to call yourself anything you want. Heck, call yourself a Hindu. But you should be aware that Hindus will disagree, and so will Christians. Not because we are better and have the right to say who you are, but because of the long established connection with an idea, or set of ideas, and the term "Christian."

Perhaps you have an idea why almost every mainstream Christian denomination, be it Catholic, S. Baptist, Lutherin, Methodist, Presbyterian etc, does NOT consider the LDS a Christian Church?? What is your explanation for this unusually consistant theological agreement among disparate denominations with long standing differences?
 
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OK, i dont care what other religions say -- most I have talked to, feel that way because they think that we worship joseh smith and look at christ as a prophet -- that is my honest opinion, that is why they dont tcall us Christians -- once Ive explained that, most are accepting. You would be surprised at some of the things ive been told have been said by other preachers. . IE did you know i have horns? -- kind of silly, but people believe it

IMO, they should teach thier message and what they believe instead of bashing another religion over the pulpit. Ive even talked to a minister who admitted to teaching cetain things vbecause they woulnt pay him anfd they would find someone else if he didnt tell them that what they were doing and how they were living was OK. He had a very large house and nice cars -- and had gotten used to that lifestly. he took no pride in what he did - and was afraid to teach what he believed.

Again, all you have said is that others dont accept us so that makes it so -- if sad they are not christians does that make it so? NO

again -- what do you define as a Christian? strict definition, not well you believe in bla bla bla...... what is a christian, not what is it not
 
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The single defining statement that I think Christians can say is the following:

Jesus Christ, the one and only, God became a man and died on the cross atoning for the sins of all that whomever shall believe in him shall not parish but have everlasting life.

The key here is that there is only one God. Something we know Mormon's don't believe.
 
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afgolfer;833101; said:
OK, i dont care what other religions say -- most I have talked to, feel that way because they think that we worship joseh smith and look at christ as a prophet -- that is my honest opinion, that is why they dont tcall us Christians -- once Ive explained that, most are accepting. You would be surprised at some of the things ive been told have been said by other preachers. . IE did you know i have horns? -- kind of silly, but people believe it

IMO, they should teach thier message and what they believe instead of bashing another religion over the pulpit. Ive even talked to a minister who admitted to teaching cetain things vbecause they woulnt pay him anfd they would find someone else if he didnt tell them that what they were doing and how they were living was OK. He had a very large house and nice cars -- and had gotten used to that lifestly. he took no pride in what he did - and was afraid to teach what he believed.

Again, all you have said is that others dont accept us so that makes it so -- if sad they are not christians does that make it so?

Good grief! It is not about what I believe or define, it is about the beliefs of any group and how those beliefs compare with the core views of historical "Christianity". As long as the LDS Church believes in multiple Gods, and that men can be Gods and that God was originally a man, y'all are not a "Christian" church, as the term has been defined for two thousand years.

Believe in Jesus or believe in The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Be aware, however, that when you join either belief with the doctrine that men can be gods and that God was a man - and you call it "Christian"...well....you hit the "tilt" button in the pin-ball game of denominational labeling.

afgolfer;833101; said:
again -- what do you define as a Christian? strict definition, not well you believe in bla bla bla...... what is a christian, not what is it not

Wrong!! What it is not, is "not Christian", by virtue of the man as god/god was man thing. What is so freaking hard to get?? Next thing you'll tell me Drunken Pirate Girl deserved to have her teaching certifiate withheld
 
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I know this will men little to you and that nothing i say will ever get you to allow me to call myself a christian because of doctrinal differences, but i ask you to condider the following statements. You are all allowed to disagree with me, which is fine , but I also ask that you respect my beliefs. Ding me ifit makes you feel better. I am not here for popularity. just trrying to have a discussion with fellow fans. agree or disagree, thats fine but I hope you will respect my opinion.



I have asked many questions only to have them pushed under the rug or scoffed at, or even ridiculed but never answered. I guess some people find the answer, that others dont except you so you are wrong to be a good enough response

In his day, Christ wasnt widely accepted either .........



Are Mormons Christians?

by Stephen E. Robinson


Stephen E. Robinson, ?Are Mormons Christians?? New Era, May 1998, 41

If you live in Utah, you may be surprised. If you live where Latter-day Saints are a minority, you?ve probably heard it before?perhaps many times. But there are sincere people out there who believe the Latter-day Saints aren?t Christians. In fact, the accusation that we are not Christians is probably the most commonly heard criticism of the LDS Church and its doctrines today.

are%20mormons%20christians.htm
 
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Afgolfer, why didn't you address this? You claim this is what you want, a direct answer about what Christianity is... and why LDS does not fit the criteria (or come close).
t_BuckeyeScott;833112; said:
The single defining statement that I think Christians can say is the following:

Jesus Christ, the one and only, God became a man and died on the cross atoning for the sins of all that whomever shall believe in him shall not parish but have everlasting life.

The key here is that there is only one God. Something we know Mormon's don't believe.
 
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