Oversigning (capacity 25, everyone welcome! maybe)

[Gatorubet]

But Team A now gets the benefit of "signing" them the previous season and many players feel a sense of loyalty, even though the "loyalty" shown by Team A was not what it seemed since they didn't actually have room for them all.

Certainly I can see a "loyalty" dap. But then again, a difficult qualifier is likely not as keen on going to Dear Old State U as he is getting on a team and starting. The kid may be mad he was not...."helped" with his grades by Team "A", and therefore hold it against them.

Someone somewhere may keep stats on the issue. I mean, we know where they originally signed, and we know where they ultimately enrolled. So what you say (loyalty dap) is either true or untrue. But it could be checked out with some time.

Team A also gets to offer a wider variety of kids than a school that does not ignore its scholarship limits when accepting verbals & signatures.

Not getting you. Do you mean more high school contacts?

If those extra kids don't qualify, they get a benefit and jump start on the next season.

Again, you must be referring to your loyalty thing. If they do not qualify, they will - at best - get to play at an inferior school with inferior resources and possibly be able to make their grades and have a clean slate to enroll at any program they like.

If one of those extra kids qualify, they now get to land a prospect some would not offer due to his academics.

They might. It depends on the number of spots open, and if a red or gray shirt abuse will occur. In the real world, a 5 star guy will be on the team. That is why the rules that need tweaking are the gray and red shirt ones, IMO.

If many of those extra kids qualify, they get to upgrade their roster and remove some dead weight to make room.

Again, improperly "removing dead weight" is a separate issue/topic. I am with you that rules can be created that limit the number of gray and red shirts, and punish you if you are over that mark.

We do need rule change. I merely want to point out that the real problem is not a number of LOIs, but the number of different enrollees in a time span. Why not put a high end cap on that, while allowing some flexibility for other situations. I prefer flexibility instead of rigid rules, but acknowledge the need to change the rules due to what looks like clear abuse of the rules by a few programs/coaches.

 

[jwinslow]

Not getting you. Do you mean more high school contacts?

If you know you only offer kids you have room for, then when when an super ATH, lousy student comes along, you can't afford to waste one of your precious & limited scholarships on him. You need to focus on signing kids who can actually qualify. You might take a flyer on a kid if he's that talented, but if he doesn't work out, then that scholarship can't be filled that year (unless you go juco, which is almost never comparable, at least not 11th hour guys).

If you're a school which routinely oversigns and asks kids to accept that risk instead of you, now you have access to a wide variety of great athletes with questionable to terrible transcripts. What's the worst that could happen? He ends up qualifying, and you have to figure out a way to get him on campus?

That's why it's still an advantage even when the kid doesn't end up making the grade. You got to play the lottery by betting someone's scholarship. It's still a benefit even if the odds are slim that said player hits the jackpot on the ACT and you win big as his ally.

The school that doesn't oversign doesn't get the opportunity to benefit from those extra opportunities to win.

Again, improperly "removing dead weight" is a separate issue/topic. I am with you that rules can be created that limit the number of gray and red shirts, and punish you if you are over that mark.

How else can you realistically make it under your limit without removing dead weight? There are some very isolated cases where diehard buckeyes, gators or low ranked prospects with no other options are presented with grayshirts upfront, but those really aren't very common nor what's at issue here. Kids don't want a grayshirt at Florida if Alabama is promising them a scholarship, even if they know Alabama routinely plays games with the less talented kids' scholarships (they believe they'll be the talented ones... same as most kids aren't scared off by depth charts).

 

[jwinslow]

What about having kids transfer with an early January deadline like the pro draft?

Of course you would still have to monitor expulsion and medical waivers, but it would give a clear cut number for how many spots there are. Make it a formal process with an official off-season roster.

Take the guess work and vagueness out of he equation.

 

[Gatorubet]

If you know you only offer kids you have room for, then when when an super ATH, lousy student comes along, you can't afford to waste one of your precious & limited scholarships on him. You need to focus on signing kids who can actually qualify. You might take a flyer on a kid if he's that talented, but if he doesn't work out, then that scholarship can't be filled that year (unless you go juco, which is almost never comparable, at least not 11th hour guys).

Yeah. Which is why a kid who is not enrolled in your program is of little or no value to you. Which is why mere LOI numbers in and of themselves are meaningless.

If you're a school which routinely oversigns and asks kids to accept that risk instead of you, now you have access to a wide variety of great athletes with questionable to terrible transcripts. What's the worst that could happen? He ends up qualifying, and you have to figure out a way to get him on campus?

Yep. And only if he qualifies is it of any moment whatsoever. Then, the issue is how do you get him in ......or not. IMO, HERE is where the abuse issues may begin. It is common for someone to leave a program. Not common for five to do so. How many and why is the issue for rule tweaks.

That's why it's still an advantage even when the kid doesn't end up making the grade. You got to play the lottery by betting someone's scholarship. It's still a benefit even if the odds are slim that said player hits the jackpot on the ACT and you win big as his ally.

If he does not make the grade the advantage is negligible...IMO

The school that doesn't oversign doesn't get the opportunity to benefit from those extra opportunities to win.
How else can you realistically make it under your limit without removing dead weight?

If Team "A" were allowed 27 players, and 30 signed LOIs, three of them non-qualifiers, then only the 27 would enroll.

 

[BB73]

Yeah. Which is why a kid who is not enrolled in your program is of little or no value to you. Which is why mere LOI numbers in and of themselves are meaningless.

Although all of the LOIs are used to hype how successful the recruiting haul was, and ESPN heaps praise on teams with those extra LOIs, since they're in a league that doesn't have its own TV network that is 49% owned by ESPN's competitior.

That's not meaningless to me.

 

[jwinslow]

It is still an advantage to get three extra shots at a BCS caliber athlete, even if it only works out part of the time.

That's like saying there is no advantage to going for it on 4th and long if the attempt is not successful. Even if the chances are slim and the conversions infrequent, it is still an advantage over those who do not go for it on 4th.

 

[muffler dragon]

FWIW, I hate this thread. Can we just call it what it really is? "Josh and Ubet Comparatively Measure Part I-VIII"

 

[TDunk]

FWIW, I hate this thread. Can we just call it what it really is? "Josh and Ubet Comparatively Measure Part I-VIII"

I think VIII is pushing it. Wait this wasn't a dick measuring contest? Nevermind then. Please proceed.

 

[Gatorubet]

FWIW, I hate this thread. Can we just call it what it really is? "Josh and Ubet Comparatively Measure Part I-VIII"

This keeps both of us off the other threads. Now you've ruined it for everybody. :(

 

[BUCKYLE]

Way to go, asshole.

 

[Gatorubet]

Although all of the LOIs are used to hype how successful the recruiting haul was, and ESPN heaps praise on teams with those extra LOIs, since they're in a league that doesn't have its own TV network that is 49% owned by ESPN's competitior.

That's not meaningless to me.

FSU had all world signing classes according to the experts, even as they continued to circle the toilet bowl in a Jeff Bowden spiral of death. I think rankings that include non-qualifiers and soon to be early drop outs and kicked offs mean less to me than they do to you. But that is because our lesser rival made such a stink about how great their rankings were as they slid south and I watched it slowly unfold.

Your view is likely the more widely held one.

 

[amybuckeye]

FSU had all world signing classes according to the experts, even as they continued to circle the toilet bowl in a Jeff Bowden spiral of death. I think rankings that include non-qualifiers and soon to be early drop outs and kicked offs mean less to me than they do to you. But that is because our lesser rival made such a stink about how great their rankings were as they slid south and I watched it slowly unfold.

Your view is likely the more widely held one.

The next person to post in this thread is gay.

 

[Deety]

The next person to post in this thread is gay.

How YOU doin'?

 

[BUCKYLE]

I feel Numby was robbed of an opportunity here.

 

[Gatorubet]

The next person to post in this thread is gay.