Game Thread Orange Bowl: tOSU vs Clemson, Jan 3, 8:30 ET, ESPN

[stowfan]

I agrncludingee with you, but O'Connor was an Urban recruit. He was committed to PSU with the others and committed to OSU Jan. 16th 2012

Of the players who left, only Pittman was ranked in the top 15 at their position. They were not the players who made the class highly rated. Also their leaving opened the scholarships up for other players instead of just lingering.

The players we are talking about, were either sophomores or red shirt freshmen this past season. LJB mentioned 4 players as stars/future stars. 2 of the 3 players LJB thought show promise started games this year. 3 of the 4 players who played, and should be sitting, started games. Several of the players lost in the shuffle, got playing time. All in all, not bad for a group of red shirt freshmen, and sophomores.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Calling Warren Ball and Brionte Dunn probable busts is absurdly premature.

First, I said that this was a snapshot as of today. I also said that things could change in the future. Again, you display your lack of reading comprehension skills, and your desire to argue for the sake of arguing.

But if you insist.... In two seasons, Ball and Dunn have combined for 38 carries for 209 yards and 2 TD's. Elliott, as a true freshman in 2013, had 30 carries for 262 yards. You tell me who is in line to be the featured back in 2014. You tell me who are more likely to be busts. Maybe things change down the road, but right now Elliott is the guy, and Ball and Dunn are fighting for mop up minutes.

Like I said, a great close to a bad class, signing 4 studs, a corner coming into his own and a DT with promise if he can stay healthy.

Cam Williams, Armani Reeves, David Perkins, Joey O'Connor, Se'Von Pittman, and Kyle Dodson were a great close? If you want to give Urban credit for Spence, Schutt, and Decker, then you also have to hold him responsible for his misses.

By the way, Washington was in the fold long before Urban took over, although his formal announcement came just after (on November 22nd). But if you insist on counting Washington as an Urban recruit, then you also get stuck with Ricquan Southward, who committed on November 27th.

And if you want to talk about absurdities ... isn't it rather absurd to call Armani Reeves a "corner coming into his own" after a game in which the Buckeye defensive backs gave up 378 yards and 5 touchdowns?

That is remarkable work in a few months in an era when 11 months before NSD is too late to offer many kids.

Getting Spence, Schutt, Washington, and Decker probably saved the class being being an utter train wreck. But four of Urban's last-minute recruits (Southward, Pittman, Perkins, and O'Connor) have already left the program, and at least two others (Dodson and Williams, we can debate about Reeves) appear destined for bench warmer status. None of which is to say that Urban can't recruit. In 2012, he was stuck with a lot of shotgun weddings, and the results were predictable - a few successes, but more failures. Urban is not working under such conditions any longer, and his 2013 and 2014 classes should be much better in reality, even if they are not much different on paper.

 

[jwinslow]

First, I said that this was a snapshot as of today. I also said that things could change in the future.

I'm well aware of that. I find it to be overly harsh.

Again, you display your lack of reading comprehension skills, and your desire to argue for the sake of arguing.

And your propensity to be overly negative.

But if you insist.... In two seasons, Ball and Dunn have combined for 38 carries for 209 yards and 2 TD's. Elliott, as a true freshman in 2013, had 30 carries for 262 yards. You tell me who is in line to be the featured back in 2014. You tell me who are more likely to be busts. Maybe things change down the road, but right now Elliott is the guy, and Ball and Dunn are fighting for mop up minutes.

I'm well aware of who is in line to be the featured back. I find proclaiming them to be probable busts to be incredibly premature and the byproduct of classifying too many as negatives when they're simply at a loaded position, particularly when they are lumped together with a guy like Cardale Jones or Kyle Dodson. Then again maybe we have a different definition of a bust.

Cam Williams, Armani Reeves, David Perkins, Joey O'Connor, Se'Von Pittman, and Kyle Dodson were a great close? If you want to give Urban credit for Spence, Schutt, and Decker, then you also have to hold him responsible for his misses.

By the way, Washington was in the fold long before Urban took over, although his formal announcement came just after (on November 22nd). But if you insist on counting Washington as an Urban recruit, then you also get stuck with Ricquan Southward, who committed on November 27th.

We could discuss the painfully late start on that class, but that would require you asking a reasonable question about the close, and not inquiring whether I thought a list of the busts were a good finish.

And if you want to talk about absurdities ... isn't it rather absurd to call Armani Reeves a "corner coming into his own" after a game in which the Buckeye defensive backs gave up 378 yards and 5 touchdowns?

I thought he made some solid progress in that game.

Getting Spence, Schutt, Washington, and Decker probably saved the class being being an utter train wreck. But four of Urban's last-minute recruits (Southward, Pittman, Perkins, and O'Connor) have already left the program, and at least two others (Dodson and Williams, we can debate about Reeves) appear destined for bench warmer status.

So you're saying that he hit on 4/11 if we agree that Armani is a debatable 12th man. That's a pretty typical hit rate for a top program and especially impressive given the painfully late start when most kids shut down their recruitment many months ago and told Meyer the same.

If he arrives earlier, I wonder if he still takes an athlete like Perkins. Personally I think he lands prospects like Joe Bolden or Ifeadi Odenigbo over Perkins with a full year (or three) to build those relationships. To be clear, I'm talking caliber of prospect, not those two specifically.

None of which is to say that Urban can't recruit. In 2012, he was stuck with a lot of shotgun weddings, and the results were predictable - a few successes, but more failures. Urban is not working under such conditions any longer, and his 2013 and 2014 classes should be much better in reality, even if they are not much different on paper.

I think they're completely different on paper which bodes well as an overall metric (meaning that 55-65% of players won't meet Scout's expectations instead of the 65-75% of bad classes :)).

That class had 10 ***. The last 2 had seven combined. The ratios are changing nicely. Now we need some coaching.

I'm just excited to have a wealth of talent pushing and sharpening each other.It's one thing to be bad at a position but it's painful knowing that you can't fix it because the replacements are in HS or pups still figuring out their collegiate duties let alone perfecting their technique.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

I think they're completely different on paper.... That class had 10 ***. The last 2 had seven combined. The ratios are changing nicely. Now we need some coaching.

I was talking about the classes being similar on paper with respect to overall class ranking (#3 in 2012, #1 in 2013, currently #5 in 2014, all according to Scout). My original post was in response to someone who touted the 2012 class because it was ranked #3 in the country, a ranking, I think we can agree, which was too high in retrospect.

 

[jwinslow]

I was talking about the classes being similar on paper with respect to overall class ranking (#3 in 2012, #1 in 2013, currently #5 in 2014, all according to Scout). My original post was in response to someone who touted the 2012 class because it was ranked #3 in the country, a ranking, I think we can agree, which was too high in retrospect.

Agreed, which speaks to the flaws in ranking classes (though any metric will be very flawed given the incongruity of classes).

It was essentially 4 five stars + a good MSU class.

 

[matcar]

Agreed, which speaks to the flaws in ranking classes (though any metric will be very flawed given the incongruity of classes).

It was essentially 4 five stars + a good MSU class.

The last 5 words in this post -if true - is what bothers me most...simply because of what MSU managed to do with that class.

 

[jwinslow]

Well to be fair, they typically squander a huge percentage of their elite recruits in East Lansing

 

[stowfan]

What got me started in this thread, was LJB's reference to the 2012 class as "near disastrous". They are only sophomores, and compared to what? The 2003, and 2004 classes were IMHO, near disastrous. I think the 2012 kids are way ahead of those classes.

http://ohiostate.scout.com/a.z?s=145&p=9&c=8&yr=2003

http://ohiostate.scout.com/a.z?s=145&p=9&c=8&yr=2004

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

Well to be fair, they typically squander a huge percentage of their elite recruits in East Lansing

The new wink smiley is like the seinfeld episode when george squirts grapefruit juice in his eye. I can't be sure that you're actually winking, or in pain.

 

[OHSportsFan]

Jeff Svoboda ‏@JeffSvoboda1m
ESPN says Friday's Orange Bowl was the highest rated since 2008. Ohio State-Clemson averaged 11,400,000 viewers, up 8 percent

So, hey, got that going for us...

 

[calibuck]

keep in perspective when an SEC team signs 33 recruits, gains a top 5 recruiting class, and then has 5-6 kids not qualifying for (insert name of SEC school here). They still have a record of a top 5 recruiting class, and that s*** does happen. commit under one coach, transfer under another. Happens all the time to every team. tOSU is not sacred in this regard. Maybe the kid just didn't like Urb's coaching style, or Urb didn't like the cut of the kid's chin. Who knows. We had an elite safety leave Florida HS, come here, and very quietly transfer (to Duke) when Urb took over. The kid didn't like Urb when he was at Fla, and didn't like him at tOSU. I seem to remember that everyone was ga-ga when Urb pulled Dodson from Wiscy (as well as Decker from ND), AND the others. Hard to tell who can cut the mustard from HS to an elite Div I team (tOSU) until they actually strap it up.

This is URB's third recruiting class (actually 2 1/2). This and next year will be proof of the pudding as to the quality of the kids he recruits, and how they sync on the field. Forget who said it was the coaching, and that is a true factoid. Nebraska and MSU get 2 and 3* kids, and coach them up to be first rounders. OK, so if we start with 5* kids and coach them down to bench warmers what are we? Notre Dame? Urb brought in some great coaches, but they also have great egos as well. Mayhaps the coaching chemistry was not what it appeared? We'll see. I'm pretty sure that Urb will try to get his coaches to work it out. Finally, why on earth do we have one coach for CB's and another for S's? Don't the four/five/six have to work together back there? 25-2 ain't bad, but at tOSU we measure success by only two points - win at Michigan and the NCS game. So we're only 1 for two this year. Let's Go Bucks!

 

[Deety]

Darn it, LJB and jwins got it sorted before I had the cage set up.

So much for tonight's entertainment, folks. Time to try the frostbite.

 

[jlb1705]

On Signing Day, it was a great class. Now, not so much. That's why I say to ignore the recruiting rankings, and treat each signee as a zero star college football player and see how he develops from there.

Here's how it breaks down, as of today, as I see it. Obviously, things can change in the future:

No Longer With the Team
1. WR Ricquan Southward
2. OL Joey O'Connor
3. DL De'Von Pittman
4. LB David Perkins
5. LB Luke Roberts
6. DB Najee Murray

Lost in the Shuffle
1. QB Cardale Jones
2. RB Brionte Dunn
3. RB Warren Ball
4. WR Michael Thomas
5. WR Frank Epitropoulos
6. TE Blake Thomas
7. OL Kyle Dodson
8. DB Devan Bogard

Showed Some Promise in Limited Minutes
1. OL Pat Elflein
2. OL Jacoby Boren
3. DL Jamal Marcus

Have Played, Should Be Sitting
1. LB Joshua Perry
2. LB Cam Williams
3. DB Tyvis Powell
4. DB Armani Reeves

Current / Future Stars
1. OL Taylor Decker
2. DL Noah Spence
3. DL Adolphus Washington
4. DL Tommy Schutt

So that makes six busts, eight probable busts, seven who could go either way, and four really solid players. Overall, not a good class so far. If the staff can develop Elflein, Boren, and Marcus into functional players, and recruit over Perry, Williams, Powell, and Reeves, then they will have done about as much as possible with this bunch.

To me this is the ratio of hit/unsure/miss also emphasizes the shortcomings of the two classes prior to it. To me if you ask why more of these sophomores aren't contributing you should also be asking why there aren't more juniors and seniors blocking them on the depth chart. I'm looking at that "should be sitting category". If things were right with the junior and senior classes in those position groups those guys wouldn't have been thrown into action and would be in the "lost in the shuffle" category.

I'm hesitant to be too negative about this recruiting class right now though. Perhaps the reality won't live up to it, but in terms of perception this was a strong class and it immediately established the momentum and trajectory for the Meyer era in these first two seasons. I believe that it had enough of an immediate impact in terms of those factors to give this program the ability to recruit over the guys are misses (in spite of sanctions), and I think we're starting to see that.

 

[MaxBuck]

Time to try the frostbite.

I'd prefer to try the Highland Park, myself, but each to his own.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Lost in the Shuffle
1. QB Cardale Jones
2. RB Brionte Dunn
3. RB Warren Ball
...
Have Played, Should Be Sitting
1. LB Joshua Perry
2. LB Cam Williams
3. DB Tyvis Powell
4. DB Armani Reeves

I think Cardale is going to be a very good one before he graduates. Dunn and Ball will be more than adequate, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them has a Hydesque breakout year before graduating. I also think you're a tad harsh on Perry...I think he's played pretty decent ball overall, as has Tyvis Powell. Reeves and Williams on the other hand can ride the pine the rest of their time here, especially Williams, who has missed twice as many tackles as he has made...great physical attributes, but is the worst tackler I've ever seen in a Buckeye uniform. I hope he reads this and gets pissed off about it...