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OL Justin Boren (Official Thread)

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HailToMichigan;1127122; said:
You imply that Boren being a legacy means a stronger bond between player and program than normal. Ordinarily, you'd think so. This legacy already almost went to OSU, as you were kind enough to point out. It doesn't work both ways here. There wasn't any kind of special legacy bond during the recruiting process when Justin was thisclose to being a Buckeye and there isn't now. As you said, if it weren't for a visit from Bo, he might already be. So where was that legacy pull when it was just Lloyd Carr recruiting him?
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Avoiding the issue doesn't make the issue disappear.

Boren didn't go to OSU, he went to scUM and legacy had something to do with it, in fact without the legacy there would have been no Bo visit and quite possibly no Boren for you. To put it another way, if Boren's father had been offered to go to OSU, he would have gone and Justin would have been a legacy recruit for OSU.

But the issue that you tried to avoid is if in the future, an OSU legacy (under the same circumstances as this situation) were to transfer, after earning a starter's position his freshman year, and were saying the things that this scUM legacy is saying, for this proud alumnus of The Ohio State University, that would be a very, very sad day.

As I said in my earlier post, keep your head in the sand. The most likely outcome of keeping one's head in the sand is to get one's ass kicked. And the type of ass kicking I envision may not necessarily show up in the W-L record either.
 
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ysubuck;1127133; said:
The legacy pull is that the legacy was enough to get him to commit to playing his college football at UM. That's a huge life decision for a kid and obviously all things were at least equal in his mind and Ohio State just wasn't Michigan.

Ohio State wasn't the team he grew up rooting for. Ohio State wasn't the team his dad played for.

Ohio State wasn't the team he'd grown up listening to old "war" stories about.

Ohio State wasn't the team in his heart. UM was.
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Yet he was going to go to Ohio State anyway.

Closer to home? Liked Tressel better than Carr? Depth chart issues? Who knows?

So I'll revise what I said a little bit.

Either there really was no legacy pull, or the legacy pull was unbelievably strong and it was the only thing keeping him at Michigan. Now Carr is behind a desk, and Bo, God rest his soul. RR could be a complete saint and there'd still be no legacy pull.

In either case, he ended up liking Carr's regime. Not one coach would have come in from another program and kept the entire coaching staff or had the same philosophies. Greg Schiano? No legacy there. Les Miles? Was last a Wolverine fourteen years ago. Pure speculation, to wonder whether he'd have stayed under those coaches, but it was a coaching change, not a family values change, that Mike Boren alluded to.

Much of BOren-gate is tied up in the desperation of UM fans to distance themselves from everything Carr, including shutting down the "country club" that too many enjoyed (ie Gabe Watson). Thus when drill sergeant RR arrives, it's a glorious renaissance, regardless of the tactics used to bring about such wholesale change.
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Other than the fact that I'd have chosen different phrasing than "the desperation of UM fans to distance themselves from everything Carr", this, and the unquoted following, is probably the most accurate assessment of the state of mind of U-M fans I've seen.

We are being blasted for hypocrisy for dumping on Boren for leaving, and there's probably a bit of truth to that, but there's consistency in our approach too. Before Carr even announced his retirement, we were wanting a coach who had a pedigree of success, who had a little bit of a drill-sergeant attitude at practices, who would shake the complacency out of the program, and would start grinding the players into better shape. We got one. As a bonus, he can recruit, his record of recruiting violations is spotless, and his teams never gained a reputation for playing dirty ball. All those accusations that we're spoiled would certainly have rung true if we'd reacted to the RR hiring with contempt, as in, "oh, well we also wanted a guy who will keep every single player in the program, and his departure from his last school wasn't clean enough, so, fire RR!!"

I haven't partaken and won't partake in any Boren-bashing. I don't believe he's "soft", not under what I'd define as soft. You'd better at least be able to tolerate practice, otherwise it definitely is time to go, because that's where you're gonna see the most of your coach. So I don't blame Boren for his decision to leave. But the accusations shouldn't be so offhandedly dismissed either. Consider: Mallett, Mitchell, and Ciulla left some time ago, but with plenty of time to see RR's approach and get to know the guy. OK, fine, they leave 'cause they don't like the new coach; it happens everywhere, and I don't recall any outcry. Boren, on the other hand, has been working with RR and his crew for three months now. No coach is a huggable teddy bear with a finely tuned sense of legacy and family values outside of practice, and then goes into practice a frothing-at-the-mouth, insulting, screaming, philistine who'd belittle his own son just to motivate by fear. A coach is a coach, and surely Boren must have had some kind of inkling what he'd be in for at practice from having gotten to know the guy over three months, and from working in his conditioning program. Many fans see a guy who was totally on board with the program until he actually had to get on the field. What changed his mind once practice started? The running back to the huddle, or what? While I don't agree with the end result of that thought process, I can see where it's coming from.

P.S. Saddler committed to Pitt before RR was hired at U-M, so it's certainly possible he didn't like RR while he was still at WVU, but his three finalists were WVU, UVA, and Pitt. Eliminated Michigan before he eliminated Rodriguez.
 
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It's been made quite clear it's a strong possibility. There are a wealth of posts on the subject, which you've surely seen in this thread and elsewhere.

So answer the question. If he's so soft and wants everything handed to him with no work, why would he even consider going to OSU where he'll be worked very hard, have to earn a spot on a two deep (let alone a starting spot) against much more talent than he faced in AA, and do so without the luxury of a scholarship (both monetary and a general commitment for his future at a school)?

I think the answer is he's being spun into something he's not, because people don't like his decision to leave and how he did so.

Can you answer the question or not? Or will you duck it yet again? You're laughing this all off, so there must be an explanation for why he'd consider a school that presents even more challenges than what he's "running from" at UM.
 
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Mrknowitall;1127175; said:
i like the kid and will always like the kid life goes beyond football but people are slaying michigans name for this ONE guy
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and people are slaying this kid's name for Michigan football, after two years of adoring the kids talent, play and tenacity... in favor of a coach they've heard about for 2-3 months.

I take it you can't explain why he would choose OSU.

If a UM fan wants to take issue with someone slamming his school upon departure, I can understand that. I can even understand only wanting kids who want to play under RR. But the spin beyond that is quite reckless imo.
 
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I guess I can see both sides of this argument.

After losing to Ohio State four years in a row, losing to App. State, and just plain turning into a complacent football team, I can understand a TTUN fan's reaction to Boren leaving. More specifically, I can understand the, "If you can't play with the Big Dogs..." mentality. If I was a TTUN fan...

...ugh. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Let me try again.

If I was a TTUN fan...

...again. Sheesh. I'll try again. If I was a fan of team which faced a similar crossroads, I think I'd welcome Drill Sergeant tactics of Rodriguez. Who knows, maybe he'll end up doing a great job. I hope not, but he may. And if his offensive line rallies around Boren leaving the team, then the line may have a good year. We'll see.
 
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All I know is I cannot wait untill 11/22/08.

An awful lot of talk coming from up north for a group thats looking to graduate a second consecutive class that never beat OSU. Now all of a sudden Boren's trash, Trents an all american and Dick Wad is the second coming of Rockne.
 
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If you have been following Buckeye recruiting the past 3 years, you are familiar with Justin and his recruitment. If you think conditioning is an issue with Justin, you didn't follow his recruitment and, futhermore, don't know Justin Boren.

There is a reason why Buckeyes are quick to defend Boren, and its because we know that coniditioning is NOT an issue with him. I feel like us Buckeye fans might be some of the few that know that as truth and those people reading about Boren from outside of TSUN and Buckeye countries will simply assume he was lazy, weak, soft, fat, etc. These articles don't mention that in high school, his max bench press would have been one of the top 5 bench press numbers in OSU football history.
 
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