Ohio State 76, Minnesota 60 (Final)

[LitlBuck]

Guys, this is a game thread not the Jon Diebler thread. I think we had beaten him up enough already in the game thread and I have been guilty also.

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

God help us if Diebler plays 35 minutes against any opponent, or if he takes anywhere close to 20 shots.

He is just dreadful right now. Too slow afoot, too indecisive in all aspects of the game. A couple of Butler's TOs against the Goophers rightfully belonged to Diebler, who was so indecisive that he started in one direction, then changed right as the pass was being thrown. He is a genuine liability on the court, and needs to get his head right. His attitude is great, and it seems like there must be talent there somewhere, but his psyche must be pretty fragile at the moment.

Clearly Thad disagrees with you, as there was a reason that Diebler was on the court instead of Lighty when Minnesota was making it close. Is he shooting poorly? Yes. Did he start poorly last night? Yes. Is he anywhere close to dreadful or a genuine liability? No. Nowhere close.

And please, enlighten me, what could possibly be better for a fragile psyche than the coach showing the supreme confidence in him by playing him for 35 minutes and telling him to shoot whether its open or not? Sitting him on the bench for the entire game and asking the starters to play 40 minutes a piece? That would really help his fragile psyche.

If we are going to beat Indiana or MSU we need to Diebler to be a scoring threat from deep. We play PSU, Michigan, and Northwestern in the next 3, who run combined 21-34. We should beat all 3 of these teams easily, and IMO getting Diebler on track is the second most important thing this team needs to accomplish right now, after winning ball games. So him shooting till he hits for a couple games in a row is the best thing for this team in the long run. Even if it means that the scores are closer than they should be.

 

[MaxBuck]

Diebler played only 10 minutes against Minnesota, so I don't think it's accurate to say Matta disagrees with my premise that he doesn't deserve anywhere near 35 minutes a game. I'd agree he doesn't likely agree with my characterization of JD's play as "dreadful," but I'm not very diplomatic.

Frankly, I do not understand the apologists for this kid. He is playing poorly, and pretending otherwise is baffling to me. I hope his game improves, and that he becomes all-B11. But suggesting that someone whose performance doesn't warrant it should play 35 minutes, denying others PT - that makes no sense.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Diebler played only 10 minutes against Minnesota, so I don't think it's accurate to say Matta disagrees with my premise that he doesn't deserve anywhere near 35 minutes a game. I'd agree he doesn't likely agree with my characterization of JD's play as "dreadful," but I'm not very diplomatic.

Frankly, I do not understand the apologists for this kid. He is playing poorly, and pretending otherwise is baffling to me. I hope his game improves, and that he becomes all-B11. But suggesting that someone whose performance doesn't warrant it should play 35 minutes, denying others PT - that makes no sense.

So you are one that gives up on Michael Jordan when he gets cut form his high school team, or one that gives up on a guy just because he is in a slump...

We can't afford to play the starters 40 mintues/game we have all stated that Diebler is not playing his best basketball, but he is a frosh and we all konw that it is just a matter of time before he starts knocking down the jumper...Trust me when I say this he is knocking them down in practice and all the players know what he brings to the table, and I am sure that they all think his shot is going to go down when he lets it fly, and if coach didn't think that then he would be telling him to stop shooting and he obviously hasn't told him that...

I am not saying that we play Diebler to take away from other guys, but what I am saying is that we need to have faith in Diebler that he can get the job done, because we can't win with a 6 man rotation and we will wear down by the end of the season if we play Turner, Diebler, and Butler 35+ minutes a night...

 

[MaxBuck]

So you are one that gives up on Michael Jordan when he gets cut form his high school team, or one that gives up on a guy just because he is in a slump...

I'd challenge anyone to find where I suggest "giving up on" Jon Diebler; I certainly don't suggest that. (At the same time, be careful with the analogies -- Michael Jordan? Please!) And I agree that the Buckeyes need to have more than a 6-man rotation or else we'll run completely out of gas. But the idea that it would be good to "play (any non-starter) for 35 minutes" in hopes it will get him to play better is just silly.

With all this being said, I hope we put open enough whoopass on one of our upcoming foes that not only Diebs but Dallas L, Eric W, PJ H and (yes) Kyle M get to play big minutes. The more depth the better, all the way around!

 

[Best Buckeye]

I'd challenge anyone to find where I suggest "giving up on" Jon Diebler; !

This could be constured as having given up on him.

God help us if Diebler plays 35 minutes against any opponent, or if he takes anywhere close to 20 shots.

He is just dreadful right now. Too slow afoot, too indecisive in all aspects of the game. A couple of Butler's TOs against the Goophers rightfully belonged to Diebler, who was so indecisive that he started in one direction, then changed right as the pass was being thrown. He is a genuine liability on the court, and needs to get his head right. His attitude is great, and it seems like there must be talent there somewhere, but his psyche must be pretty fragile at the moment.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

I'd challenge anyone to find where I suggest "giving up on" Jon Diebler; I certainly don't suggest that. (At the same time, be careful with the analogies -- Michael Jordan? Please!) And I agree that the Buckeyes need to have more than a 6-man rotation or else we'll run completely out of gas. But the idea that it would be good to "play (any non-starter) for 35 minutes" in hopes it will get him to play better is just silly.

With all this being said, I hope we put open enough whoopass on one of our upcoming foes that not only Diebs but Dallas L, Eric W, PJ H and (yes) Kyle M get to play big minutes. The more depth the better, all the way around!

I guess it is just kinda inferred from the tone of the post, when you are contending that Jon shouldn't be getting minutes, when you are saying he is dreadful, why people are making excuses for him, etc...

Yes MJ was a prime example, but there is no reason to think that next game he couldn't come out and hit 5 3's and completely blow up...This is the same kid that had a huge game against UNC with his 3's and kept us in the game...Yes he has struggled but he is only a frosh...Turner struggled early and his play wasn't great but there was no reason to call his play dreadful, just chalk it up to being a frosh and go from there...We all knew the ups and downs would be there, and yeah it sucks that Diebs is putting the ball in the hole, but he does bring other things to the court other than his shooting, and even tho he is struggling guys are guarding him to open the court...

I know there is a lot of talk about Diebs here, and rightfully so, but I think many would agree that we can all see the potential, so there is no reason to no think that next game he blows up and that is why Matta keeps running him out there...

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

Diebler played only 10 minutes against Minnesota, so I don't think it's accurate to say Matta disagrees with my premise that he doesn't deserve anywhere near 35 minutes a game. I'd agree he doesn't likely agree with my characterization of JD's play as "dreadful," but I'm not very diplomatic.

Frankly, I do not understand the apologists for this kid. He is playing poorly, and pretending otherwise is baffling to me. I hope his game improves, and that he becomes all-B11. But suggesting that someone whose performance doesn't warrant it should play 35 minutes, denying others PT - that makes no sense.

I am not advocating that we play Diebler 35 minutes a night every night. I am suggesting that one potential way to work him out of his slump is to play him heavily in games that we should easily win, and try to get him a lot of shots in those games. We all know he has the talent, and its a mental thing right now. So work him through the mental issues by showing confidence in him. If he doesn't break out of his slump, then he can go back to getting 10 minutes a night. But why not try it, when we are playing PSU, Northwestern, and scUM?

By the way, if not giving up on a kid because he is not shooting well is being an apologist, then color me guilty. But I view it as being supportive of the player who I truly believe is the key to unlocking how far this team can go. And its not like he is playing poorly in all facets of the game- far from it. He is shooting poorly, and we all like points, because they help us win, so we are frustrated when he isn't scoring them like we know he is capable of. But to ignore his defense, court awarness, and basketball IQ by throwing them all under the tag of dreadful is, in my opinion, naive at best.

 

[osugrad21]

Dispatch

OSU men's basketball: Bench steps up, though not in numbers

Monday, January 28, 2008 2:59 AM
By Bob Baptist


THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Andrea Kjerrumgaard dispatch
Jon Diebler's minutes have diminished lately, but he was active in Ohio State's 76-60 win over Minnesota on Saturday.




Thad Matta was asked once about the scant number of points scored by players off his bench. The Ohio State men's basketball coach smiled and said, basically, that he didn't really care, as long as the points scored by all his players were more than the other team's. Points alone don't do justice to a bench's value. Minnesota's bench, for example, outscored Ohio State's 20-6 on Saturday night. But Matt Terwilliger and Jon Diebler, the only two reserves Matta played for more than a minute, left their prints all over the Buckeyes' 76-60 victory in Value City Arena.

Cont...

 

[jwinslow]

[FONT=arial,helvetica] Ohio State's Jamar Butler (14) drives to the basket around Minnesota's Jonathan Williams, left, during the second half of their college basketball game Saturday, Jan 26, 2008, in Columbus, Ohio. Ohio State won, 76-60. (AP Photo/Terry Gilliam)

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[FONT=arial,helvetica] Minnesota's Lawrence McKenzie, right, pressures Ohio State's Jamar Butler (14) during the seco, 76-60. (AP Photo/Terry Gilliam)

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[FONT=arial,helvetica] Ohio State's Evan Turner (21) goes up for two as Minnesota's Al Nolen (0) looks on during the second half of their college basketball game Saturday, Jan 26, 2008, in Columbus, Ohio. (AP Photo/Terry Gilliam) [/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica] Ohio State's Jon Diebler (33) dunks the ball during the second half of their college basketball game against Minnesota Saturday, Jan 26, 2008, in Columbus, Ohio. (AP Photo/Terry Gilliam)

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[FONT=arial,helvetica] Ohio State head basketball coach Thad Matta questions a call by the official's during the first half of their college basketball game against Minnesota, Saturday, Jan 26, 2008, in Columbus, Ohio. (AP Photo/Terry Gilliam)[/FONT]

 

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

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