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Ohio State 64 Illinois 58 (Final)

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crazybuckfan40;1072998; said:
Still ups and downs and it is just a matter of increasing the number of ups and decreasing the number of downs...

No real player breakdowns for tonight, as we won and overall everyone played good...

The thing that continues to hurt this team are turnovers and defensive rebounding...

If we ever get a game when we take care of both of those and then shoot the ball well we could beat anyone in the country and I truly believe that, but we have to sure up those two areas...
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I'm trying hard not to be too negative but I'm starting to think its more of a case where our guys do the SOS everynight and the level of competition either is good enough to make us pay for it or not. Much like the football team, the zone is killing us on D and the offense turns it over too much. As many second chances as Illinois got last night a good team would have smoked us.

Also, a question for those who would know...who on the team can't play man to man so badly as to warrant this 2-3 zone all year? Again, just like in football I'm having a hard time believing we don't have the type of athletes at OSU that can play man to man with anyone.

All in all I'm pretty much running out of hope on the whole "their young and will continue to get better" deal. I just don't see the improvement.
 
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Also, a question for those who would know...who on the team can't play man to man so badly as to warrant this 2-3 zone all year? Again, just like in football I'm having a hard time believing we don't have the type of athletes at OSU that can play man to man with anyone.
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I don't think the answer to your question is just one guy.....I think as a team they are not at a point yet in Matta's mind where they can play great man to man team defense......
 
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Teams learn to play together as a team or remain an average team, sometimes you can have all the talent in the world and not have a team.
That is up to the players themselves and the coaches. I have seen that Butler, Lighty and Turner increasingly make efforts to distribute the ball and that is good.
A big problem with player turnover is team experience and we suffering from that right now and might continue to do so as long as a lot of players leave each year for the pros.
 
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I believe we struggled early in terms of pick n rolls with the big guys not being able to handle those, much like Oden in a way last season, but last year he could recover and block shots, this year we don't have anyone at the back line that is going to strike fear into guy from coming in the lane...

Also the zone allows us to use the 2-2-1 press more effectively as we just drop back into the zone defense and the coaches also like the length of our guys getting in passing lanes and altering shots...

I can tell you this our defending the 3 has been alot better this year than it has been in years past when we have played man to man...

I also think that when we sit in zone all game it makes it seem like they are getting easier buckets, when they come 6-10 times a game, but you have to figure that they would get easy buckets at some point against man as well..

I honestly don't think that other than rebounding out of the zone, that the zone is a problem at all...

I will say that a lot of times our guys have some position, but it is the long rebounds that kill us...Along with the backside...It is up to the backside guard to block out the wing on the backside and not just run the rim...I have seen Diebler and Turner be guilty of this alot...

Also need to stop running out until we have the rebound...Seen this a bunch...We need to concentrate on getting the rebound then leave...

The talent is there guys...We have seen Turner, Lighty, Hutner, Diebs, Butler, kk put up big numbers, we have seen them play great defense, we know that these guys are athletic enough to rebound and we know that turnovers are a correctable problem...We just have to put it all together...We broke in 4 new starters this year and of our first 4 guys off the bench only 1 was here before this year...
 
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Jaxbuck;1073228; said:
Also, a question for those who would know...who on the team can't play man to man so badly as to warrant this 2-3 zone all year? Again, just like in football I'm having a hard time believing we don't have the type of athletes at OSU that can play man to man with anyone.
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I think one other potential reason is the revolving door of players exepected over the next few years. Matta recruits a lot of poetntial 1 and done guys. Man-to-man defense is much more a team defense. With a zone system, you can plug guys in and let em' go. It's also a lot harder to exploit a weakness on the floor.
 
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OHTG102012302_1024x768.jpg

[FONT=arial,helvetica] Ohio State's Kosta Koufos, right, shoots over Illinois' Mike Tisdale during the first half of a basketball game Tuesday, Jan. 22, 2008, in Columbus, Ohio. Illinois' Demetri McCamey (32), lower right, looks on. (AP Photo/Terry Gilliam)[/FONT]
 
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Jaxbuck;1073228; said:
I'm trying hard not to be too negative but I'm starting to think its more of a case where our guys do the SOS everynight and the level of competition either is good enough to make us pay for it or not. Much like the football team, the zone is killing us on D and the offense turns it over too much. As many second chances as Illinois got last night a good team would have smoked us.

Also, a question for those who would know...who on the team can't play man to man so badly as to warrant this 2-3 zone all year? Again, just like in football I'm having a hard time believing we don't have the type of athletes at OSU that can play man to man with anyone.
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I think the zone has worked pretty well. The Bucks continue to be one of the better teams in points allowed in the B10. And remember, this is not your father's zone. Matchup zones are more comparable to man-to-man with alot of switching than they are to static 2-3 zones. Notice the way he guys are able to squeeze the passing lanes and guard he 3... that is the sign of a good, aggressive matchup zone rather than the traditional 2-3 or 1-2-2 where the D squeezes the paint and forces teams to shoot 3's. Agreed that they are not defensively rebounding well now, but thats all about execution from their zone and effort, not a flaw in the zone itself.

Jaxbuck;1073228; said:
All in all I'm pretty much running out of hope on the whole "their young and will continue to get better" deal. I just don't see the improvement.
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I disagree - bad shooting nights have masked the team's improvement, but I think the team is improving and the guys continue to learn their roles.

crazybuckfan40;1073308; said:
I believe we struggled early in terms of pick n rolls with the big guys not being able to handle those, much like Oden in a way last season, but last year he could recover and block shots, this year we don't have anyone at the back line that is going to strike fear into guy from coming in the lane...
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Hunter has been coming along well...

Also the zone allows us to use the 2-2-1 press more effectively as we just drop back into the zone defense and the coaches also like the length of our guys getting in passing lanes and altering shots...

I can tell you this our defending the 3 has been alot better this year than it has been in years past when we have played man to man...
Click to expand...

I think this is due to some great play from Butler, Lighty and (most of the time) Turner - Dieblers length presents problems for teams at times too. And, say what you want about Oden's presence inside, he was not nearly as capable as rotating to the baseline step-out as KK, Hunter and Twigs are...

I also think that when we sit in zone all game it makes it seem like they are getting easier buckets, when they come 6-10 times a game, but you have to figure that they would get easy buckets at some point against man as well..

I honestly don't think that other than rebounding out of the zone, that the zone is a problem at all...
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Agreed...

I will say that a lot of times our guys have some position, but it is the long rebounds that kill us...Along with the backside...It is up to the backside guard to block out the wing on the backside and not just run the rim...I have seen Diebler and Turner be guilty of this alot...

Also need to stop running out until we have the rebound...Seen this a bunch...We need to concentrate on getting the rebound then leave...
Click to expand...

I agree, and, like I said above, this is more due to effort and execution...

The talent is there guys...We have seen Turner, Lighty, Hutner, Diebs, Butler, kk put up big numbers, we have seen them play great defense, we know that these guys are athletic enough to rebound and we know that turnovers are a correctable problem...We just have to put it all together...We broke in 4 new starters this year and of our first 4 guys off the bench only 1 was here before this year...
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I agree with most of what you said CB40...
 
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this team is not playing with the effort that is needed at this level. one player is maybe, pj hill and he lacks on size, skill and composure amongst other things. butlers effort is acceptable, with the mins and his role i dont know how much mroe you can expect.

this team does not play with the competitive composure, consistency or sense of urgency needed to compete at a high level...


i promise something sometime, i swear....
 
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Have not read the entire thread (sorry) but from what I have read I am in pretty much agreement with everything that has been said.
I would like to say that playing a zone defense is not as easy as one might think it would be. A good zone defense is probably as difficult to learn as playing man-to-man. I am old school and Wittenberg won numerous small college championships and they always played zone. It is not that simple to learn if it is going to play to its maximum.

I will agree that rebounding out of a zone is much more difficult than out of man-to-man but a lot of rebounding while playing zone comes from desire and hustle.

I am curious as to why on Ohio State's first possession they went to Kosta on a "clear out" and he did a little baby hook. I thought that was something we were going to see and we never went back to that play the rest of the game. It was rather mind-boggling to me.

I was also pretty disappointed that the guys got sloppy when they had their 14 point lead almost to lose the game. We better get better at putting teams away or one of these days it is going to come back to haunt us.
 
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LitlBuck;1073397; said:
Have not read the entire thread (sorry) but from what I have read I am in pretty much agreement with everything that has been said.
I would like to say that playing a zone defense is not as easy as one might think it would be. A good zone defense is probably as difficult to learn as playing man-to-man. I am old school and Wittenberg won numerous small college championships and they always played zone. It is not that simple to learn if it is going to play to its maximum.

I will agree that rebounding out of a zone is much more difficult than out of man-to-man but a lot of rebounding while playing zone comes from desire and hustle.

I am curious as to why on Ohio State's first possession they went to Kosta on a "clear out" and he did a little baby hook. I thought that was something we were going to see and we never went back to that play the rest of the game. It was rather mind-boggling to me.

I was also pretty disappointed that the guys got sloppy when they had their 14 point lead almost to lose the game. We better get better at putting teams away or one of these days it is going to come back to haunt us.
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It already came back to bite us at Purdue, we had that game for the taking if we would of taken care of business, but we let them back in...

A game like this helps us more than the game against Iowa tho...For no other reason than to keep these guys grounded and know that there is still lots of work to be done...
 
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