Game Thread Ohio State 3, Southern Cal 35 (Sept. 13)

[BuckeyeGanoosh]

Except this year we can infuse a freaking spark plug at QB in key situations, hopefully to make the scores not as close as 02

It's funny because even with the close scores, that team always made me feel like they would pull it out. Our current team hasn't been in the hole much, and plays uncomfortably as such.

 

[generaladm]

:) Only if its an inexperienced defense! I still think CPC is gonna try and make TB pass. Just my opinion.:)

Even the most experienced Ds can be fooled by a play fake. In the 06 OSU/UM game, a very experienced UM D that was ranked in the top 2 IIRC, bit hook, line, and sinker on a brilliantly executed PA pass, resulting in a Smith to Ginn TD. There's a good reverse angle shot at the 50sec mark. You can see the safety moving up to play the run, allowing Ginn to beat the CB to the inside. The RB on the play? Chis "Beanie" Wells.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX8dMoNDaqs]YouTube - Troy Smith vs michigan 2006[/ame]

I expect PCP will try to shut down the run, and make our O one dimensional. I actually expect every team will use that strategy. Stopping Beanie (and the other backs) is a lot easier said than done. As long as TB is not forced to throw on every down, I don't see him as a liability.

Beanie will make every defense respect the run, and that makes passing easier.

But reading play-action is not about how good the back is. The QB, the Back and even the linemen sometimes give it away with their stance, their first step, or where they look. Yes, self-scouting helps to weed some of that out; but there's still enough there that guys like Chris Spielman (and Dick Butkus before him) could make a living off of it in the NFL where there should be enough practice time to eliminate those kinds of "tells".

I see what you're saying, DBB, but the effectiveness of the RB does have an impact on the PA. I would say that establishing the run is the most important factor. If the front 7 can shut down the run without safety support, the DBs have no reason to worry about anything but their assignment. The DBs don't have to be completely fooled on the PA, as long as they hesitate or take a step up, the WRs should get separation.

You are dead on about the PA being a team effort. Even the WRs have a part to play. Michael Jenkins was especially adept at selling the run by faking a block before continuing his route. The O-line's job is particularly difficult, since they have to pretend to run block without moving forward. I heard Spielman say on the radio that he always knew when a PA was coming by watching the OL before the snap. He couldn't put his finger on anything specific, but he claimed he was never fooled in college or NFL.

 

[Buckeye_in_Cali]

Seriously loving the Carson Palmer trash talk. Makes this whole hype up to the game that much more fun. Good to see pro guys still passionate about their college ties even if they are trashing the Bucks. Trash talk is what makes America great.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

...I see what you're saying, DBB, but the effectiveness of the RB does have an impact on the PA...

If you think I said it didn't you missed my point.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

...Trash talk is what makes America great.

There are many things that make America great.

Trash talk is a matter of taste.

There's a difference.

 

[troy#1]

Even the most experienced Ds can be fooled by a play fake. In the 06 OSU/UM game, a very experienced UM D that was ranked in the top 2 IIRC, bit hook, line, and sinker on a brilliantly executed PA pass, resulting in a Smith to Ginn TD. There's a good reverse angle shot at the 50sec mark. You can see the safety moving up to play the run, allowing Ginn to beat the CB to the inside. The RB on the play? Chis "Beanie" Wells.

YouTube - Troy Smith vs michigan 2006

I expect PCP will try to shut down the run, and make our O one dimensional. I actually expect every team will use that strategy. Stopping Beanie (and the other backs) is a lot easier said than done. As long as TB is not forced to throw on every down, I don't see him as a liability.



I see what you're saying, DBB, but the effectiveness of the RB does have an impact on the PA. I would say that establishing the run is the most important factor. If the front 7 can shut down the run without safety support, the DBs have no reason to worry about anything but their assignment. The DBs don't have to be completely fooled on the PA, as long as they hesitate or take a step up, the WRs should get separation.

You are dead on about the PA being a team effort. Even the WRs have a part to play. Michael Jenkins was especially adept at selling the run by faking a block before continuing his route. The O-line's job is particularly difficult, since they have to pretend to run block without moving forward. I heard Spielman say on the radio that he always knew when a PA was coming by watching the OL before the snap. He couldn't put his finger on anything specific, but he claimed he was never fooled in college or NFL.

The difference is on a pa, you also had to watch troy smith to run as well as wells, and neither receiver is a Ted GINN. Not saying they arent any good, but Ginn was special. :)

 

[generaladm]

If you think I said it didn't you missed my point.

I understood your point, but this sentence can only be interpreted one way.

But reading play-action is not about how good the back is.

Obviously, the rest of the post was about how the rest of the O can give away the fake, which I mentioned in my reply. But, that sentence is absolute in stating the RB is not a part of that. Perhaps "is not all about" would have been more what you meant. Either way, I think were both saying the same things. We'll just have to disagree to agree.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

I understood your point, but this sentence can only be interpreted one way.

But reading play-action is not about how good the back is.

Obviously, the rest of the post was about how the rest of the O can give away the fake, which I mentioned in my reply. But, that sentence is absolute in stating the RB is not a part of that. Perhaps "is not all about" would have been more what you meant. Either way, I think were both saying the same things. We'll just have to disagree to agree.

Considering your interpretation is wrong, it seems unlikely that it can only be taken one way. That's my fault for not being precise enough, so let me explain.

How good the back is has no bearing on READING play-action. It has a bearing on the effectiveness of play-action, but not on reading it.

It looks to me like you and I either don't really disagree, or we disagree in a minor way about how much the presence of "tells" in the offense affects the effectiveness of play-action.

 

[generaladm]

I could read it correctly without the Jumbo Reader's Digest font. We're definitely splitting hairs here. The reading of the PA by the D, and the effectiveness of it are related. The more fooled the D is, affected by how well the O executes, the more effective the PA. The RB can blow the fake just as much as everyone else, if he doesn't mimic his same motions as when he gets the ball. I think my point which may be confusing things is that the success of the RB prior to the PA play affects the Ds ability to read the fake. If the RB is pounding the ball and getting thru the LBs, the DBs are more likely to cheat towards the run. While I would agree that the O-line and QB can do more to sell or tell the PA, the RB is a factor in the Ds ability to read it. That, of course, depends on what your definition of "is" is.

 

[BuckeyeGanoosh]

Seriously loving the Carson Palmer trash talk. Makes this whole hype up to the game that much more fun. Good to see pro guys still passionate about their college ties even if they are trashing the Bucks. Trash talk is what makes America great.

Browns fan here, so i'm biased, but he's gotta be burning some bridges with some Bengals fans. I love college football passion, but Carson is an arrogant disrespectful twit.

 

[BuckeyeGanoosh]

That, of course, depends on what your definition of "is" is.

None of it matters because they won't stop Beanie in the first place.

 

[troy#1]

Browns fan here, so i'm biased, but he's gotta be burning some bridges with some Bengals fans. I love college football passion, but Carson is an arrogant disrespectful twit.

As are most young nfl stars.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

As are most young nfl stars.

He's my number one pick in my Fantasy Water Boy league, for sure. :p

 

[troy#1]

None of it matters because they won't stop Beanie in the first place.

Dont be so sure. I read the same kind of things when we were gonna play arkansas, saying d-mac was gonna go crazy ,and when he got tired felix jones was gonna take over. Well, the d faired pretty well against those 2. Same with cadillac williams and ronnie brown. I think we did okay against them as well. I know, different players, different teams, but pretty much same coaches and the way they prepare. Wells is a good back, but I like our chances.:)

 

[troy#1]

He's my number one pick in my Fantasy Water Boy league, for sure. :p

Does he back up kirk herbstreit? I bet he is your favorite!PS, just some good natured ribbing, please dont give me another infraction! I have worked hard to turn it around.:)