OFFICIAL: Biblical/Theology Discussion thread

[Taosman]

"The greatest distance in the world is the 14 inches from our mind to our hearts." Dalai Lama

 

[Gatorubet]

J
A "rational conversation about spirituality" makes as much sense as a rational conversation about Santa Claus. Just because something has been peddled to you since the day you were born, and is "believed" by billions of people, doesn't make it real. The day you can provide a shred of evidence to support the existence of the spirits upon which you base your "spirituality" is the day I'll take it seriously. As long as it remains self delusion, there is no reason for me to have a "rational" conversation about it. It is not my responsibility to cater to your imagination.

I find it more than mildly amusing that the person giving everyone grief in this thread does not understand the definition of spirituality.

BTW, I was raised a golfer, not a church goer, and therefore the only thing "peddled" incessantly to me was to hit it back into the fairway from the woods and try to make a par or bogey - and avoid the snowman I'd likely make going for the green through the trees with an iffy shot from a bad lie.

 

[SmoovP]

Says the man who "believes" in invisible, supernatural beings and gets [censored]ed off at those of us who call such things superstition. Pardon me if I find this assertion hilarious.

If you've taken anything I've said as me being 'pissed off' at you or any other atheist, agnostic, non-believer or anyone else, then I really don't know what to say to you.

It seems to me that you're the pissed off person in this thread.

 

[MaxBuck]

Says the man who "believes" in invisible, supernatural beings and gets [censored]ed off at those of us who call such things superstition. Pardon me if I find this assertion hilarious.

It seems to me that you're the [censored]ed off person in this thread.

I just don't see that at all.

 

[SmoovP]

I just don't see that at all.

To tell the truth, I'm closer to being 'pissed off' at fundamentalists than I am at atheists or agnostics.

 

[bassbuckeye07]

I am always tempted to test the waters in this thread....these discussions, while ive had them a million times in my life, seem to go no where...I personally have dabbled in agnosticism...and hard core Catholicism (uh oh)....but to be so completely arrogant to scoff at belief in God ive always felt is as stupid as Jonesboro baptists....athiests dont really know shit (neither do the religious) but how can one be completely at peace with life as we know it is a result of a freak accident? Its like finding a watch in remote mountains that has your name engraved in it simply because the materials were there and it just so happened to form that way...I think what people dont like about religion or the concept of God is its flawed human interpretation...I get that....but I dont get the complete denial of God

 

[Brewtus]

I am always tempted to test the waters in this thread....these discussions, while ive had them a million times in my life, seem to go no where...I personally have dabbled in agnosticism...and hard core Catholicism (uh oh)....but to be so completely arrogant to scoff at belief in God ive always felt is as stupid as Jonesboro baptists....athiests dont really know shit (neither do the religious) but how can one be completely at peace with life as we know it is a result of a freak accident? Its like finding a watch in remote mountains that has your name engraved in it simply because the materials were there and it just so happened to form that way...I think what people dont like about religion or the concept of God is its flawed human interpretation...I get that....but I dont get the complete denial of God

Atheists don't believe in a god simply because there is no evidence of one (and I think you would be hard-pressed to find an atheist who was 100% certain that god does not exist, 100% certainty only exists in matters of faith). No different than Christians who don't believe in Thor, Zeus and Atman. Truth isn't determined by what makes someone feel "completely at peace", but instead by reason and rational examination of evidence. It seems to me that your belief in God is due to humanity's lack of knowledge on exactly how the universe came to be (a "God of the Gaps"). If mankind were to someday have a viable explanation for the origin of the universe, would you then suddenly become atheist? Explaining a complex and unlikely phenomenon by claiming the existence of an even more complex and unknown being isn't really explaining anything.

 

[bassbuckeye07]

Atheists don't believe in a god simply because there is no evidence of one (and I think you would be hard-pressed to find an atheist who was 100% certain that god does not exist, 100% certainty only exists in matters of faith). No different than Christians who don't believe in Thor, Zeus and Atman. Truth isn't determined by what makes someone feel "completely at peace", but instead by reason and rational examination of evidence. It seems to me that your belief in God is due to humanity's lack of knowledge on exactly how the universe came to be (a "God of the Gaps"). If mankind were to someday have a viable explanation for the origin of the universe, would you then suddenly become atheist? Explaining a complex and unlikely phenomenon by claiming the existence of an even more complex and unknown being isn't really explaining anything.

I'm simply addressing the smug remarks toward those that believe in God...The "God of gaps" label is silly because its not gaps as in plural its existance period....that is one huge Gap

Compairing belief in God to invisible monsters takes credibility away from the point most Athiests are trying to make....I get doubt

My belief in God by the way is not what I cling to to explain creation...its the emotion of love that pushed me to consider God

 

[Brewtus]

I'm simply addressing the smug remarks toward those that believe in God...The "God of gaps" label is silly because its not gaps as in plural its existance period....that is one huge Gap

Not all atheists are smug, although I'm sure I've appeared that way before. :) I used "God of the Gaps" because that's the common terminology for that concept.

Compairing belief in God to invisible monsters takes credibility away from the point most Athiests are trying to make....I get doubt

I don't see the difference (and Thor, Zeus and Atman were gods, not monsters). If you had lived in Scandinavia a thousand years ago or Greece a few thousand years ago you would be arguing for the existence of Thor and Zeus as fervently as a Christian God.

My belief in God by the way is not what I cling to to explain creation...its the emotion of love that pushed me to consider God

Very well, but you can't claim that an emotion you feel is any kind of objective evidence for the existence of God. It may feel real to you, but truth is not determined by emotions.

 

[bassbuckeye07]

Not all atheists are smug, although I'm sure I've appeared that way before. :) I used "God of the Gaps" because that's the common terminology for that concept.

I don't see the difference (and Thor, Zeus and Atman were gods, not monsters). If you had lived in Scandinavia a thousand years ago or Greece a few thousand years ago you would be arguing for the existence of Thor and Zeus as fervently as a Christian God.

Very well, but you can't claim that an emotion you feel is any kind of objective evidence for the existence of God. It may feel real to you, but truth is not determined by emotions.

I would hardly try to present objective evidence for the proof of God...its futile and most people are smarter than me....Im trying to explain my choice to believe in God..and it has nothing to do with an obsession to explain why we are here. Its not the emotion of love either but witnessing the human expression of it...when people do things like lay down their life for others...IE jumping on a grenade to save the platoon..that is Godly in my mind and different than other organisms

I don't see the difference (and Thor, Zeus and Atman were gods, not monsters). If you had lived in Scandinavia a thousand years ago or Greece a few thousand years ago you would be arguing for the existence of Thor and Zeus as fervently as a Christian God.

I get that as well....but most Athiests know that when they use those terms its offensive to your run of the mill zealot...its used to poke fun rather than prove a point.....it doesnt offend me because I look at all forms of religion as a flawed human interpritation of "God"....We as a species have always desired to draw closer to "God" and have systematically tried to identify "God"...it is this lense that I think athiests detest...God is inconceivable to humans so our interpritation is, well, human

 

[Brewtus]

I would hardly try to present objective evidence for the proof of God...its futile and most people are smarter than me....Im trying to explain my choice to believe in God..and it has nothing to do with an obsession to explain why we are here. Its not the emotion of love either but witnessing the human expression of it...when people do things like lay down their life for others...IE jumping on a grenade to save the platoon..that is Godly in my mind and different than other organisms

I get that as well....but most Athiests know that when they use those terms its offensive to your run of the mill zealot...its used to poke fun rather than prove a point.....it doesnt offend me because I look at all forms of religion as a flawed human interpritation of "God"....We as a species have always desired to draw closer to "God" and have systematically tried to identify "God"...it is this lense that I think athiests detest...God is inconceivable to humans so our interpritation is, well, human

In your original post you essentially asked why do atheists deny the existence of God. I answered that it is due to a lack of evidence. Then you stated that it was futile to try and provide objective evidence for the proof of God. So why should anyone believe in something without evidence? I assume that you use reason, logic and evidence when you make decisions every day. If I were to tell you I had an elephant living in my basement I assume you wouldn't believe me on face-value, you would want some kind of evidence. But for the universe's biggest question, you (and billions of other people) require no objective evidence. For me personally, this is just baffling. I truly don't understand how people can use a certain set of standards when determining if one thing is true but not use the same standards for something else.

You also state that God is inconceivable to humans. If so, how can someone logically believe in something that is not definable? What do they have belief in? How would someone recognize God if they encountered it? Isn't that the same as saying "I know I believe in something, I'm just not sure what it is"? How can that position possibly be supported?

 

[muffler dragon]

In your original post you essentially asked why do atheists deny the existence of God. I answered that it is due to a lack of evidence. Then you stated that it was futile to try and provide objective evidence for the proof of God. So why should anyone believe in something without evidence? I assume that you use reason, logic and evidence when you make decisions every day. If I were to tell you I had an elephant living in my basement I assume you wouldn't believe me on face-value, you would want some kind of evidence. But for the universe's biggest question, you (and billions of other people) require no objective evidence. For me personally, this is just baffling. I truly don't understand how people can use a certain set of standards when determining if one thing is true but not use the same standards for something else.

You also state that God is inconceivable to humans. If so, how can someone logically believe in something that is not definable? What do they have belief in? How would someone recognize God if they encountered it? Isn't that the same as saying "I know I believe in something, I'm just not sure what it is"? How can that position possibly be supported?

Now, do you believe?

 

[Deety]

Now, do you believe?

6'6"?

 

[Taosman]

One day Mara,(God of Evil,Satan) the Evil One, was travelling through the villages of India with his attendants. he saw a man doing walking meditation whose face was lit up in wonder. The man had just discovered something on the ground in front of him.
Mara's attendant asked what that was and Mara replied, "A piece of truth." "Doesn't this bother you when someone finds a piece of truth, O Evil One?" his attendant asked. "No," Mara replied. "Right after this, they usually make a belief out of it."

 

[muffler dragon]

6'6"?

Indeed. No extra socks needed.