OFFICIAL: Biblical/Theology Discussion thread

[AKAK]

Considering I only type maybe 6 words per minute, and I can't figure out how to get the spell check through the pop up blocker I'm afaid that would be painful for me. That being said, I'd love some enlightenment. I'm interested in what your religous background is, could you please PM me?

Check around page 47ish of this thread.... and... yeah, I know you weren't talking to me.

 

[muffler dragon]

I began to wonder a little bit about this last night, and hinted at it in an earlier post here today. I wonder if we can identify historical peoples as one of the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps this issue is well documented, I haven't looked yet... Anyway, it might be pretty interesting to know what ancient "ites" were the 12 tribes.

Actually, the word "semitic" comes from Noach's son, Shem. Thus, it would go back to:

Genesis 10
21. And to Shem were also born [children; he was] the father of all the people of the other side [of the river], the brother of Japheth the elder.

22. The sons of Shem were Elam and Asshur and Arpachshad and Lud and Aram.

23. And the sons of Aram were Uz and Hul and Gether and Mash.

24. And Arpachshad begot Shelah, and Shelah begot Eber.

25. And to Eber were born two sons: one was named Peleg, because in his days the earth was divided, and the name of his brother was Joktan.

26. And Joktan begot Almodad and Sheleph and Hazarmaveth and Jerah.

27. And Hadoram and Uzal and Diklah.

28. And Obal and Abimael and Sheba.

29. And Ophir and Havilah and Jobab; all these were the sons of Joktan.

30. And their settlement was from Mesha, as you come to Sephar, the mountain of the east.

31. These are the sons of Shem according to their families, according to their tongues, in their lands, according to their nations.

 

[muffler dragon]

Considering I only type maybe 6 words per minute, and I can't figure out how to get the spell check through the pop up blocker I'm afaid that would be painful for me.

Understood.

That being said, I'd love some enlightenment. I'm interested in what your religous background is, could you please PM me?

1) I'm a Noachide. In short, I am a Gentile who has aligned himself with Israel. I am not required to observe Torah and so forth. My past contains 20+ years of being a Christian.
2) Regarding the Suffering Servant. What I may do is attempt to compile information regarding Isaiah 52-53 and put into a series of posts for sharing. My son was born on the 18th, and that is why I say, "may" at this present time. I'll see what I can do.

 

[muffler dragon]

I've also seen it argued that the time proceeds after the date of the exodus, in that even if we believe (and I do) that the destination was Canaan, Canaan was under Egyptian control post Exodus.

I can see where people would swing to include the wandering in the desert. As that article says, "Our sages explain that the countdown of 400 years began with Isaac's birth. G‑d's promise does not refer to Egypt by name, rather to a "land that is not theirs." As soon as Abraham had a child, his seed were subjected to living in lands that were not theirs?including Canaan which wasn't "theirs" at the time."

Truth be told, I've not spent much evaluating this; thus, I'm not sold on any particular position. I just happened to google and link up with Chabad. Chabad's information is normally quite sound.

Edit: one other point that I have not investigated (and I think it would be too much of a pain) is the potential attendance of the Israelites during captivity. It definitely does not help with modern exegesis to shrink the time spent in Egypt down. I have heard astronomical figures as to the numbers in attendance at Sinai. The less time calculated does not help that situation considering there were 70 some that went down to Egypt to start with.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Actually, the word "semitic" comes from Noach's son, Shem. Thus, it would go back to:

Genesis 10
21. And to Shem were also born [children; he was] the father of all the people of the other side [of the river], the brother of Japheth the elder.

22. The sons of Shem were Elam and Asshur and Arpachshad and Lud and Aram.

23. And the sons of Aram were Uz and Hul and Gether and Mash.

24. And Arpachshad begot Shelah, and Shelah begot Eber.

25. And to Eber were born two sons: one was named Peleg, because in his days the earth was divided, and the name of his brother was Joktan.

26. And Joktan begot Almodad and Sheleph and Hazarmaveth and Jerah.

27. And Hadoram and Uzal and Diklah.

28. And Obal and Abimael and Sheba.

29. And Ophir and Havilah and Jobab; all these were the sons of Joktan.

30. And their settlement was from Mesha, as you come to Sephar, the mountain of the east.

31. These are the sons of Shem according to their families, according to their tongues, in their lands, according to their nations.

Thanks. I couldn't help but notice immediately "Asshur" as it sticks out with respect to the research I've been doing lately as the name of a city once the capital of Assyria.

Likewise Uz - a city name I stumbled across on some now lost link I saw over the last few weeks.

According some posts I made above, this information supports my working hypothosis that the Israelities have their "genesis" in ancient Sumer. But, to be sure, I'm a long way from being in a position to offer anything close to "findings" even if I ever would be able to.

 

[muffler dragon]

Thanks. I couldn't help but notice immediately "Asshur" as it sticks out with respect to the research I've been doing lately as the name of a city once the capital of Assyria.

Likewise Uz - a city name I stumbled across on some now lost link I saw over the last few weeks.

Yup.

According some posts I made above, this information supports my working hypothosis that the Israelities have their "genesis" in ancient Sumer.

Care to give me a refresher and explain exactly where Ancient Sumer is according to your research?

But, to be sure, I'm a long way from being in a position to offer anything close to "findings" even if I ever would be able to.

I'll look you up in 2012. :tongue2:

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Care to give me a refresher and explain exactly where Ancient Sumer is according to your research?

Tigeris Euphrates - Mesopotamia

Part of my problem in researching all of this is that I'm learning a new language. I mix up Babylon, Sumeria, Assyria, Mesopotamia and so on... mixing them and matching them as if they're one place (which, of course, they actually are) without regard for timing (which, of couse, is the difference, a lot of times). I should note, my laxidasical usage of the wrong terms is MY mistake and not the information I'm gleaning in my research. that is to say, when talking here, I'm not quoting the information I've been learning, so if I call somene an Akkaddian when I should have said Assyrian, the error is mine and shouldn't reflect that I'm digging up crap info. (Although, I suppose the info could still be crap. )

I'll look you up in 2012. :tongue2:

I'll be hiding. And, don't expect your compass to work right when you come looking for me.

 

[buckeyegrad]

Incorrect...

The "according to Hoyle" example would be:

"Istanbul was Constantinople, now it's Istanbul not Constantinople. Been a long time gone for Constantinople."

Hey, "that's nobody's business but the Turks", so you keep your mouth shut!

 

[buckeyegrad]

I'll be hiding. And, don't expect your compass to work right when you come looking for me.

I assume by this post you have also done research into the Mayan calendar??

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I assume by this post you have also done research into the Mayan calendar??

Indeed I have. I personally think it "predicts" the next time the poles change. If that happens in 2012, it'll be pretty interesting. If it doesn't.... well... I guess the Mayan's weren't all they're cracked up to be. :p

 

[muffler dragon]

Tigeris Euphrates - Mesopotamia

Part of my problem in researching all of this is that I'm learning a new language. I mix up Babylon, Sumeria, Assyria, Mesopotamia and so on... mixing them and matching them as if they're one place (which, of course, they actually are) without regard for timing (which, of couse, is the difference, a lot of times). I should note, my laxidasical usage of the wrong terms is MY mistake and not the information I'm gleaning in my research. that is to say, when talking here, I'm not quoting the information I've been learning, so if I call somene an Akkaddian when I should have said Assyrian, the error is mine and shouldn't reflect that I'm digging up crap info. (Although, I suppose the info could still be crap. )

No biggie.

Btw, getting back to your statement:

According some posts I made above, this information supports my working hypothosis that the Israelities have their "genesis" in ancient Sumer.

Considering that Abraham was from there, I would say that the genesis (progenitor) proves your theory correct.

I'll be hiding. And, don't expect your compass to work right when you come looking for me.

I don't need a compass. All I need is a metal detector.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Considering that Abraham was from there, I would say that the genesis (progenitor) proves your theory correct.

Yay me!

I don't need a compass. All I need is a metal detector.

Curses!

 

[muffler dragon]

Yay me!

Do you see that li'l two letter word underneath SUMER? UR. That's Abraham's home town.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Do you see that li'l two letter word underneath SUMER? UR. That's Abraham's home town.

Forgive my ignorance, but from where do you get this? Not that I don't believe you, just that I don't recall ever reading Abraham's city of origin.

 

[Best Buckeye]

Biblical Ur
Main article: Ur Kasdim. Ur is considered by many to be the city of Ur Kasdim mentioned in the Book of Genesis as the birthplace of the patriarch Abram (Abraham). This identification is, however, disputed. [5]
Ur is mentioned four times in the Tanakh or Old Testament, with the distinction "of the Kasdim/Kasdin" ? traditionally rendered in English as "Ur of the Chaldees", referring to the Chaldeans, who were already settled there by around 900 BC. In Genesis, the name is found in 11:28, 11:31 and 15:7. In Nehemiah 9:7, a single passage mentioning Ur is a paraphrase of Genesis.
The Book of Jubilees states that Ur was founded in 1688 Anno Mundi (year of the world) by 'Ur son of Kesed, presumably the offspring of Arphaxad, adding that in this same year, wars began on Earth.